Is This A "China Marine" EGA ?

[summersdogs]

Hello to all,

 

Have I identified this collar emblem correctly as a "gooney bird" from the China Marine period? Is there a more correct terminology? There is no hallmark; can a manufacturer possibly be identified ? All comments welcome.

 

Lynne

[bobgee]

This is a bronze, service, enlisted collar ornament as worn on the right collar of the green wool winter service coat. While often referred to as a "China Marine" emblem, it was authorized for wear by all enlisted Marines and really has nothing to do specifically with China service. There is a dress version in gilt as well. The design was adopted in 1926 but appears mostly worn between 1930 & 1937. Check out the EGA Reference section here on the Forum and learn more about this "bird" and many others.

Semper Fi......Bobgee

[summersdogs]

This is a bronze, service, enlisted collar ornament as worn on the right collar of the green wool winter service coat. While often referred to as a "China Marine" emblem, it was authorized for wear by all enlisted Marines and really has nothing to do specifically with China service. There is a dress version in gilt as well. The design was adopted in 1926 but appears mostly worn between 1930 & 1937. Check out the EGA Reference section here on the Forum and learn more about this "bird" and many others.

Semper Fi......Bobgee

 

Thank you for your reply, bob. On my way to the EGA Reference Section now.

[themick]

As far as I can tell, the lable "China Marine Emblem" is a product of sellers of these emblems on Ebay and elsewhere used to get for money for them. Bobgee is correct in saying they were standard issue to all Marines in the 1930s until 1937.

 

Steve

[bobgee]

As far as I can tell, the lable "China Marine Emblem" is a product of sellers of these emblems on Ebay and elsewhere used to get for money for them. Bobgee is correct in saying they were standard issue to all Marines in the 1930s until 1937.

 

Steve

 

THe "China Marine" description existed long before EBay (10+ years). I think long ago collectors seeing the unusual wing design thought them to be "theatre-made" and as EGAs go, they have always been scarce & hard to find compared to the M1937 design. And someone coined the phrase and it stuck! We are a better-educated group today, with much credit for that going to this Forum. My 2-Cents!

Semper Fi......Bobgee

[teufelhunde.ret]

As always Bob is spot on about these gooneys, AKA droop wing, more of urban legend than reality. Their use and issue continued right up to the eve of WW2 and is to be see them on early WW2 tunics. Whether urban legend or not, the bent wings was said to have been widely despised as it was indicative of a sign of defeat... s/f Darrell

[summersdogs]

As usual, you gentlemen rock ! Thanks for each reply.

[Greg Robinson]

Were any enlisted collar emblems made during the 1930-'37 period with latitude and longtitude lines on the globe and straight wings? I've never seen one>

[teufelhunde.ret]

Greg, good question, I will take it on. Re Officer's I have little doubt makers continued to produce the non-gooney types and or continue sell on-hand stocks and little doubt many did not convert their commissioning sets for the new gooneys design - these were the height of depression years - Captains would sit in grade 15 years waiting for someone to retire. I am inclined to believe, there are FAR FEWER sets of the dress emblems than most are thinking about. The service emblems abound, simply due to wear and tear issues. Again depression era and I've seen plenty of period repair

 

To your question, As we know the implementation of the enlisted issue emblems was delayed until 1930.... budget issues, on-hand stock, etc. I have little doubt that some dress & service sets were made for private purchase before that date, many examples abound. Did someone (maker) produce a straight wing with latitude and longitude lines on the globe, I think the example I share with you here MIGHT BE one. This design has been around in some form from the early 20's ("C" clip) up to 55/56 in clutchback. I acquired this example many years ago and have been looking for a mate since, with no luck. I'm only offering this a suggestion / observation and have it on no proven record or photo from the 30-37 era. However, there is simply to much evidence to discount the theory. My 2 cents... s/f Darrell

 

 

[Greg Robinson]

Greg, good question, I will take it on. Re Officer's I have little doubt makers continued to produce the non-gooney types and or continue sell on-hand stocks and little doubt many did not convert their commissioning sets for the new gooneys design - these were the height of depression years - Captains would sit in grade 15 years waiting for someone to retire. I am inclined to believe, there are FAR FEWER sets of the dress emblems than most are thinking about. The service emblems abound, simply due to wear and tear issues. Again depression era and I've seen plenty of period repair

 

To your question, As we know the implementation of the enlisted issue emblems was delayed until 1930.... budget issues, on-hand stock, etc. I have little doubt that some dress & service sets were made for private purchase before that date, many examples abound. Did someone (maker) produce a straight wing with latitude and longitude lines on the globe, I think the example I share with you here MIGHT BE one. This design has been around in some form from the early 20's ("C" clip) up to 55/56 in clutchback. I acquired this example many years ago and have been looking for a mate since, with no luck. I'm only offering this a suggestion / observation and have it on no proven record or photo from the 30-37 era. However, there is simply to much evidence to discount the theory. My 2 cents... s/f Darrel

 

Darrell

 

While reading your answer it occured to me that I've never seen an enlisted collar emblem from ANY period which had latitude and longtitude lines on the globe, the only exception being the gooney birds. And my reference book, "The Eagle Globe and Anchor 1868-1868" has such lousy photos I can't get any help there. So how about the earlier enlisted collar emblems from the WW1 period.....how were they made?

 

Greg

[teufelhunde.ret]

Greg, there are a few variations on the basic 1921 design (first year enlisted Marines were authorized to wear collar emblems) that were used in private purchase and from England. And yes this is the only one I've ever seen outside the gooneys with both lines. The first time I saw this style emblem, it had only the latitude line and has a Meyer Metal hallmark / with matching Cap emblem. Will follow up with some photo tomorrow.

s/f Darrell

[teufelhunde.ret]

For point of reference - here is a group photo, left - the issue emblems of 1920. Right - the issue emblems of 1937. Center is a variation, pre 37 - post 37... No real consensus?

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

1902 patttern - made in England.

 

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

Another variation on the 1920 design, said to be for Band and a host other suggestions. Nothing firm on its background and period of use after 1920.

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

Trenched - I'd love to have a matched pair....!!!!!!!!!!

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

Meyer metal hallmark - 1920's

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

Acid Test hallmark. 1920's

 

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

Another variation on 1920's issue - this one for the immediate post WW1 for use on the blues without a hole in the collar.

 

[teufelhunde.ret]

An this rare hen - had forgotten about it.... a sterling emblem straight wing with latitude and longitude lines on the globe wth pinback configuration. Have only seen one other - in screwback. Unknown era and no consensus.