The Evolution of the 1926 Army EM's coat

[GIl Sanow]

Back in August, Johan Willaert and several others discussed the prewar Army EM service coats. While I chimed in on the subject of charachteristic, contract dates and the incongruities found there, I was not able to expand on the topic.

 

In a PM to Johan, I promised to post what I have after the ASMIC convention since I was tied up with several other projects including prep for the convention.

 

Well, the time has come, and here goes.

 

Interestingly, the "M1926" EM's coat never had a and earlier coats. SOME EM's coatswere converted to roll collars too, either by PQD or privately. Some years ago AAMUC member Paul Braddock provided a copy of the Pennsylvania NG magazine dated before 1930 which told guardsmen that they would turn in their high collar coats in spring and get them back, converted, in the fall. I can post photos of an example of these conversions if anyone is interested.

 

The Spec No 8-31 of 1924 called for a high collar coat with gilt buttons.

 

Spec No 8-31A, February 15, 1930, called for a 4- pocket roll collar coat of melton wool, with brass belt hooks. (Matching breeches were provided too.) An example appears below. Look closely at the fabric to see what melton looks like. Note the shade also.

 

G

[GIl Sanow]

8-31A was superseded by 8-31B on March 27, 1933. The coat was similar, but featured a different fabric. It is virtually identical to the mustard-shaded "suiting material" -- i.e. "whipcord" of 8-31.

 

Again, look closely at the fabric in the closeup. This shot was taken under the exact same lighting conditions as the previous and following shots.

 

G

[GIl Sanow]

Spec No 8-31C followed on September 11, 1937. It called for wool "serge" material. This appears identical to the typical material used in WW2 coats.

 

Again, look at the closeup to see the material.

 

Once again, the back is identical. It has belt hooks and lacks the half waistband seen later.

 

(Yes, those chevrons are real -- unauthorized, for a PFC with specialties that gave him pay 3 steps higher -- the ancestor of technician ranks of WW2 and specialist ranks later.)

 

G

[GIl Sanow]

Now, what we call the "M1939" -- Spec No 8-31D -- the early WW2 version with bi-swing pleats, the half waistband and belt hooks came next -- dated February 7, 1940. I guess the M'39 should really be called the M'40!

 

BTW -- I am quoting all of the above from the actual specifications, with the exception of 8-31B.

 

I hope this clarifies some some issues brought up in other threads.

 

G

[US Victory Museum]

I started to post an inquiry as to whether whip-cord were the same as corduroy; however, a quick check with google indicated otherwise.

The material that I read suggested is that whipcord is composed from cotton material. So is it correct that the uniforms changed from

Melton wool, to cotton, and then to wool serge, or am I drawing the wrong conclusion and instead you are showing two winter blouses and

one summer blouse?

 

> Per Wiki:

>

> Whipcord should not be confused with corduroy. Whipcord has a hard

> smooth finish with diagonal ribs. Corduroy is fuzzy with vertical ribs.

 

Msn

[Wailuna]

...Yes, those chevrons are real -- unauthorized, for a PFC with specialties that gave him pay 3 steps higher...

You bet they're real: "First and Fourth" stripes and rarely seen plausibly attached to a uniform. Hot d*mn! What is the SSI on the left sleeve?

[Johan Willaert]

Thanks for posting this, Gil!

 

Appreciate it...

 

Johan

[GIl Sanow]

The M1937 (8-31c) has a fully embroidered 9th Div patch on it.

 

ALL coats shown are wool. See my earlier posting of a Spec No 6-66 for a '30's cotton coat.

 

In regards to "whipcord" terminology, to my knowledge it is correct for this time period. I am not sure how well Wikipedia does on archaic terminology.

 

G

[Wailuna]

...The M1937 (8-31c) has a fully embroidered 9th Div patch on it...

Thanks, G, that checks out: 9th Division was activated at Ft. Bragg August 1940 and 84th FA was assigned to it. Kind of late-in-the-game for this pattern specialist stripe to be worn; the rank only existed another two years until it was replaced by the aforementioned Technician rank. The uniform is a nice set-up and a great piece of history.

[reuscher]

Thanks Gil for this information. This is very helpful. I only have two of the 8-31C's in wool serge. They only have the Phila. QM Dept type tag behind the lining, but now I know exactly what I have and what to shoot for going backwards in time. Do any of yours acutually have contractor's name or spec numbers on the tags? I've never seen the M-1926 type with anything but the Phila QM Depot labels. Thanks again for this great info.

[GIl Sanow]

I have similar labels in the lining of all three I posted -- but there are no spec numbers. Two have acceptance stamps -- one is dated -- the the 8-31C which reads 1938. Apparently the specs of the era were not printed on the labels.

 

So far as I know, PQD produced all peacetime coats, though there were other contractors before WW1 and during both world wars.

 

G

[GIl Sanow]

Thanks, G, that checks out: 9th Division was activated at Ft. Bragg August 1940 and 84th FA was assigned to it. Kind of late-in-the-game for this pattern specialist stripe to be worn; the rank only existed another two years until it was replaced by the aforementioned Technician rank. The uniform is a nice set-up and a great piece of history.

 

 

I think we can assume that the soldier had a year or two in before 1940 when the M'39 began to be issued and the 9th was activated. Certainly they would have used up old stock before issuing new.

 

The chevrons were not authorized, to be sure, but some units apparently permitted them. We know they weren't issued.

 

G

[Wailuna]

...The chevrons were not authorized, to be sure, but some units apparently permitted them. We know they weren't issued...

Ditto. I own a soldier's photo album spanning the years ca. 1927 - 1942. He evidently was a PFC the last 12 years (!) covered by the album and was rated as specialist sixth class, at least part of this time. In fact, one picture shows him and at least eight other soldiers in his unit wearing "First and Sixth" stripes.

[GIl Sanow]

NEat. If I recall correctly, these were not all that collectable until recently because no one knew what they were. I saw a single example at ASMIC recently and the price was in the $50 range -- or more!

 

I agree, finding a pair on a uniform is pretty unusual.

 

G

[LtRGFRANK]

Wow! Thanks for this Post. I have one of those Converted coats. I always thought a soldier probably had it done himself to have the modern 1926 look. Now I know how it was done. Adding this info to my file. Robert

[Ricardo]

You bet they're real: "First and Fourth" stripes and rarely seen plausibly attached to a uniform. Hot d*mn! What is the SSI on the left sleeve?

 

Image from my friend Rich´s collection:

 

[Ricardo]

Another one... :thumbsup:

 

[LtRGFRANK]

And yes I would love to see your "Converted Coat". Robert

[Johan Willaert]

Here's a M1926 coat made by the Philadelphia QM Depot (label inside lower right lining)

From the NG period of a GI of Co A / 116IR / 29ID (no, not a Bedford Boy, but still the same Company)

 

 

 

[GIl Sanow]

Looks like an 8-31C to me.

 

Will get my EM conversion up later this evening.

 

G

[Wailuna]

Interesting sighting. Not in the same league as the PFC specialist chevrons, however, as those specialist stripes were never authorized although the rank itself was a valid official rank in use throughout the Army from 1920 until 1942. The "corporal over rocker" illustrated here was an authorized insignia which saw very limited use in the Army from 1940 to 1946: Aviation Cadet Battalion Sergeant Major (see Emerson's Chevrons pp. 232 - 234). Why it appears on this coat along with a Seventh Air Force SSI is anyone's guess. Link here to see yet another unexplained sighting of a "corporal over rocker" actually being worn.

[GIl Sanow]

I just posted my conversion coat.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...c=56227&hl=

 

G

[kiaiokalewa]

I took this picture at the San Diego ASMIC Convention several years ago which was part of Bob_Cap uniform display. The Coast Defense of Sandy Hook uniform is really neat with the chervon and specialist rating chain stitched into place.

[kiaiokalewa]

Also while I was San Diego I had the chance to see Bob Polk's collection and he had this really nice tailor made tunic for a 55th CAC member which was part of the Harbor Defense of Pearl Harbor during the 20's-30's.

[GIl Sanow]

Those are really neat. Given that those shown are so often Artillery or Coast Artillery, I wonder if their use was more common there. Note that the Hawaiian Dept coat is a custom made OD cotton. I suspect it may have predated the issue khaki. I used to have a Hawaiian Division example.

 

G