scottplen Posted September 27, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 27, 2009 what do you guys tthink??? is it official hand engraved? i can not decide good or bad??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat123 Posted September 27, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 27, 2009 hmmmm, I don't know. I know it has been for sale LOOOOONG time (if it is the heart I'm thinking about). The seller calls it machine engraved, I'm not so sure... But hey, I'm new at this game :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted September 27, 2009 Yes that the one ! something just seems wrong to me ? not sure it is hand engraved in my opinion seen some official engravings close but this one is sooooo much $$$$ but if correct I would painfully pay! :crying: Dealer has some ???? stuff but some real nice stuff also? :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwightPruitt Posted September 27, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 27, 2009 It's odd. It looks to be hand-engraved judging from the shape of the E and O. One thing it's not is officially machine engraved. However, if the dealer has questionable stuff, and it's really expensive my advice would be to stay on the safe side. What's the story on the recipient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat123 Posted September 27, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 27, 2009 It looks to be hand-engraved judging from the shape of the E and O. That's what I was thinking, the curved letters look like they were done by hand... Okay, if it is hand engraved, anyone ever seen this style before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted September 27, 2009 hand engraved BUT Is it official? 505th airborne kia Holland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriegsmodell Posted September 27, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 27, 2009 I am certainly no expert or even that seasoned as a Purple Heart collector but it just scares me. It seems as if it is supposed to look like an official blackened small machine engraving. But ....., it does not have the clean lines and precision that we are all accustomed to seeing. If on the other side, it is hand engraved the type is something that again is atypical and if original, certainly unofficial. Also, call me skeptical but why do these somewhat suspect examples seem to commonly show up on desirable units and battles, etc .... I saw this piece as well and I'm useing my old tried and true maxim of "If there is ANYTHING about a piece that just does not look or feel right OR if you are in anyway uncomfortable, just walk away." I have probably passed on some "good" pieces over the years due to this philosophy but I'm betting those have been dwarfed in number by the bad ones. My thoughts only ...... Edit - spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted September 27, 2009 I am certainly no expert or even that seasoned as a Purple Heart collector but it just scares me. It seems as if it is supposed to look like an offical blackened small machine engraving. But ....., it does not have the clean lines and precision that we are all accustomed to seeeing. If on the other side it is hand engraved the type is something that again is atypical and if original certainly unofficial. Also, call me skeptical but why do these somewhat suspect examples seem to commonly show up on desirable units and battles, etc .... I saw this piece as well and I'm useing my old tried and true maxim of "If there is ANYTHING about a piece that just does not look or feel right OR if you are in anyway uncomfortable, just walk away." I have probably passed on some "good" pieces over the years due to this philosophy but I'm betting those have been dwarfed in number by the bad ones. My thoughts only ...... Edit - spelling. I agree I am going to stay away I does seem like it was tried to look like a machine engraved piece! plus the cost ! i could get 3 KIA pacifics for that price!!! I have gone back and forth on this one for a long time!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted September 27, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 27, 2009 I have no problems with the engraving. I have had and have seen others just like it. Common name though, if one was going to fake a name at least pick an unusual one. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted September 27, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 27, 2009 forgot to add that yes it is hand engraving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baker Posted September 27, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 27, 2009 It's hand engraved. Compare to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat123 Posted September 27, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 27, 2009 Great information guys :thumbsup: I guess I'm used to the first letter or each name being larger on the hand engraved PHs, but now I know. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted September 27, 2009 So its is a good official engraving ! wow ok :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom2001 Posted September 28, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 28, 2009 There was one hand engraver employed by the PQMD whose lettering style looked almost exactly like machine engraving. Here are 4 examples of his work: 1st Lt Albert Ellison, Co. E, 511 Parachute Infantry Regiment, 11th Airborne Division KIA February 8, 1945 Pvt. Neal R. Haft, 329th Infantry Regiment, 83rd Infantry Division, KIA July 15, 1944 Pvt. Sieben was KIA 17 June, 1944 while serving with the Medical Detachment, 39th Infantry, 9th Division Lt. Erwin was KIA 20 June 1944 over Misburg Germany while serving with the 838th BS, 487th BG The shape of the E's in all the examples (including the medals both Jim and Scott posted) are identical. The only major difference I see in the Bert O. Smith PH is that the letters look shorter and fatter. In both mine and Jim's example, the letters are taller. Maybe that's just the result of having to fit only 10 letters on the planchet? (edited per to Vic's suggestion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicjoy1945 Posted September 28, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 28, 2009 Yup !! Its official hand engraving for the period. I recognize the "hand" on this one and I have several examples in the collection. In fact, I think I may have a "Market Garden" 101st AB posthumous Purple Heart engraved in this exact same style. In general, I have noticed that Market Garden posthumous Purple Hearts tend to be small machine engraved and I have several done in this manner. Don't know if anyone else would concur... Obviously this particular Purple Heart medal is on a web site as some of you have seen it availble for some time but I gather its a bit pricey. Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicjoy1945 Posted September 28, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 28, 2009 Hey Tom !! Nice PHs !! You might as well mention who these gallant solders were and what units they served with in the war !! Thanks for showing !! Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baker Posted September 28, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 28, 2009 Nice.................... :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicjoy1945 Posted September 28, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 28, 2009 Great pics Tom !! I need to get some pointers from you on shooting images of medals. My photos are poor at best !! :thumbsup: Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriegsmodell Posted September 28, 2009 Share #19 Posted September 28, 2009 I have really learned a lot from the informational posts and photos in this thread. Thanks to all who have contributed. We certainly have our share of experts here that never cease to amaze me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinO Posted September 28, 2009 Share #20 Posted September 28, 2009 I have really learned a lot from the informational posts and photos in this thread. Thanks to all who have contributed. We certainly have our share of experts here that never cease to amaze me! I'm really disappointed that Tom doesn't know the name of the engraver at the PQMD (and whether he was left or right handed)! I mean COME ON, you know they had one, you've got examples of his work and....never mind. This place truely has a phenomenal knowledge base! Also, I would think being the only hand engraver, doing purple hearts for 1-2-? years would probably be really, really depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat123 Posted September 28, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 28, 2009 Once again, great thread, thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom2001 Posted September 29, 2009 Share #22 Posted September 29, 2009 I'm really disappointed that Tom doesn't know the name of the engraver at the PQMD (and whether he was left or right handed)! I mean COME ON, you know they had one, you've got examples of his work and....never mind. This place truely has a phenomenal knowledge base! Also, I would think being the only hand engraver, doing purple hearts for 1-2-? years would probably be really, really depressing. Ha!!! It actually would be kinda cool to come up with a name to go with an engraving style. Now you're making me wonder if employment records from the period were archived. Hmmm... Kurt Stauffer and Frank Smith in their OMSA article a few years back identified 15 different engravers by their style, after viewing over 130 officially engraved medals. How many worked on medals at any given time is anyone's guess, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyrocket Posted September 29, 2009 Share #23 Posted September 29, 2009 Here is an image I got years ago, and have often wondered if it an official Government engraved issued or a clever reproduction. Any opinions? johnny R. Ps: I noticed that this image has a date under the name, is this a common practice? Have anyone ever seen one with a date? I've been interested in the engravings for sometime, and very happy I came across this Forum and thread. Johnny R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottplen Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share #24 Posted September 29, 2009 privatley engraved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted September 30, 2009 Share #25 Posted September 30, 2009 I would agree that the Pittman PH is not done in the standard engraving format, but the style looks pretty close to engraving dating to the Korean War. While browsing the rest of the treads in this forum, I came across this thread about Pittman. ( http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=55808 ) Maybe this was a presentation PH issued to him at the time of the MOH???? Interesting PH none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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