grrrldoc Posted September 27, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 27, 2009 Hi All,I went to the local BAM (Bay Area Militaria Show) today and got this item. It's a POW jacket that the seller got out of Texas, he told me he was told it was used in one of the German POW encampments there. He didn't recognize the jacket, but I think it's a US WW1 summer tunic (cotton) that was dyed and painted. There is a "PW" painted on the upper part of each sleeve, and in larger letters on the back. The tags in it are long gone, and there are no markings inside. The buttons have been removed. There are pre-fabricated holes in the stand-up collar and on the tops of the shoulders. I would like to know what kind of jacket this was before it was dyed. The jacket is definitely old, and I checked out the paint carefully - it has been on there a long time, and is crackled on the fabric (I took some close-up shots). It would make sense to me that the US would have used surplus WW1 tunics for use in the POW camps, since they had no other use for them at that time. It's possible I got hosed, but I don't think so - I can't think of why anyone would take a WW1 tunic (if this is indeed what this is) and fake itHas anyone seen (or heard) of using WW1 surplus for POW use?What model WW1 jacket is this?Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted September 27, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 27, 2009 Your uniform looks correct to me.As you stated it was a obsolete item of clothing and was often issued to PWs.There is an example of the same uniform in the local POW museum at Algona Iowa.The Camp housed German PWs and they were employed in various farming activities and construction of rural electrical systems during the war. I understand that the Army adopted a standing collar summer uniform in a darker shade of olive made of cotton around 1910 and it was to replace a khaki version.This uniform was worn up til 1920.Maybe a little longer by state militia or guard until stocks were depleated or phased out in the 1920s.You will also encounter early Boy Scout uniforms in this pattern which I have handled which were army surplus with BSA buttons.Your uniform was most likely dyed a darker color.I have seen pics of Prisoners wearing blue fatique clothing and wouldnt surprise me if your uniform had been a shade of dark blue. I have some of the old china from our camp as well as a chair that was hand made by one of the POWs.Many of the items in the camp were sold surplus after the war.The mess plates,bowls,cups etc were purchased by a local man here who was a Navy veteran and started a Hardware store after the war and stocked his store with items from the camp for resale. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrrldoc Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks very much for the information, Ron! Is the jacket in the local museum also a WW1 surplus item and is the "PW" done the same sort of way? (painted on the sleeves and the back) - I'd love to somehow get a photo of the jacket that the museum has for reference - do they have a website?It's great that you have the chair and china from the local camp!I don't know my WW1 uniform regs well - is this a M1912 jacket?Also - here is a shot of the top of the shoulder - the shoulder is to the left and the sleeve is toward the right - you can see the hole pre-made for the epaulette strap button: Melanie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted September 27, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 27, 2009 Not a WW1 jacket being used, but I though you guys would like to see this pic showing Chinos, Daisy May hat and Service Coat with replaced buttons being used by a German POW in the US. Pic from eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted September 27, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 27, 2009 Here's an image from that Iowa museum's website: this looks like a high collar coat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted September 27, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 27, 2009 The Jacket in the copied picture is the exact same one I mentioned in the previous post.It has been several months since I have seen the display and I have not seen the back of the jacket.I do not recall the markings on the sleeve but if I go back I will look again. I was thinking this to be what is called the 1912 summer uniform but I cannot find a referance at the moment. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted September 27, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 27, 2009 I thought I would post a picture of an issue jacket.I hope you dont mind.This one has a contract date of 1917 from Philidelphia QM.I have read where the QM department reissued or had again made Khaki jackets for a period during the transition between the standing collar uniforms and the open collar with lapels adopted in the 1920s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted September 27, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 27, 2009 Contract label Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrrldoc Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted September 27, 2009 Not a WW1 jacket being used, but I though you guys would like to see this pic showing Chinos, Daisy May hat and Service Coat with replaced buttons being used by a German POW in the US. Pic from eBay. That is a great photo!!! Thanks very much - it shows exactly the same marks as my coat, and in the same areas - on the tops of the sleeves... The ones shown in Enjames' books appear to have a stenciled version of the "PW" on the clothing, but this one looks like it was just painted on freehand, as mine was. I did a bit of research, and I think that mine is a M1918 tunic. Unlike the M1912 tunics, they had the pre-made holes for the collar devices, which this has. Any WW1 experts out there? Please correct me if I am wrong. That would also lend credence to my supposition that this jacket was originally a surplus item, as there were undoubtedly lots of M1918s around at the end of the War... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrrldoc Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted September 27, 2009 I thought I would post a picture of an issue jacket.I hope you dont mind.This one has a contract date of 1917 from Philidelphia QM.I have read where the QM department reissued or had again made Khaki jackets for a period during the transition between the standing collar uniforms and the open collar with lapels adopted in the 1920s Excellent! Does this tunic have the pre-drilled holes for the collar devices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrrldoc Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted September 27, 2009 Well, now I found a reference online that indicates that the M1912 did have the pre-drilled holes...So now I am back to wondering which Model of summer tunic this is! According to a site that replicates these jackets, it says: US Army M-1912 cotton uniform tunic or coat (summer weight): "The coat is made of 100% cotton drill having 4 patch pockets with flaps secured with buttons. It has a standing collar with a button hole for for collar devices on either side. It is closed by r rimmed buttons attached via split rings. The summer weight coat of the US ww1 (wwi, world war one) army has plain cuffs with a double row of stitching about 3 inches from the bottom of the sleeve. The coat does not have any interior pockets and is unlined. It is constructed in olive drab 6.5 oz fabric and the seams are double stitched in same color thread as the fabric. Tapered shoulder tabs or epaulettes are provided..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted September 27, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 27, 2009 Yes it has the factory stitched holes for the discs RD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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