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I agree with 101, not real worried about them and a dummy selector, considering I have the receipt showing where it come from.

 

I did get an email from sparrowhawk today, his selectors have the guide rod, but he does not have a selector that has the rotating switch. I'm going to email him back and see about getting just the guide rod and trying to marry it up with the Fulton selector.

 

If it makes any difference to you, none of the M14's I came in contact with during the 70s had rotating switches. You probably already know this but the Army had decided finally that for the most part select fire was a bad idea with the M14 and went with the locked type on the majority of M14s issued. Only those used by the designated automatic rifleman would be switched to full auto. To find one with the rotating switch would have been an anomaly.

 

If you do not already have a copy, Frank Iannamico's Last Steel Warrior is the best M14 reference on the market. These are available from Small Arms Review - http://secure.smallarmsreview.com/product_...?products_id=63

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Looking for original photos and other items from the First World War US 77th Infantry Division.

Also interested in BAR and M1917A1 BMG related items.

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My neighbor that was the Marine M-14 rifleman said that the switch was removed from everyones rifle except the designated rifleman's, but all were capable. Whenever the rifleman was hit needing evac, the priority was to provide first aid, then second priority was to remove the selector from his rifle before turning it in. That is how others got the switch. When he went to the rear to outprocess and go home, he was put in BN supply to work his last days off. He found a box of switches and re-aportioned several from supply, out to his buddies.


Visit my eBay store: http://stores.ebay.com/crustyw4scorner/

 

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There IS such a thing as a National Match M14 flash suppressor and it DOES affect accuracy.

 

NM flash suppressors have a larger ID. This was originally added to prevent drops of water during rain from disrupting the flight of the bullet as it exits the barrel. The larger ID also prevents bullet strikes on the inside of the flash suppressor if it becomes mis-aligned. There is a proper way to ream an M14 flash suppressor to NM standards. The after market ones that are sold as NM simply have a larger ID. Most after market flash suppressors are NM, even though they aren't advertised as so. If the hole in the front is tiny, it is standard. If it is medium size or large, it is NM. In reality it won't matter which you get. From the side and at a distance they look the same. Also, if you are wanting a USGI flash suppressor, make sure you research what to look for. They are hard to tell from repros to beginners.

 

Dustin

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I have learned alot from this thread..thanks...I also have a M-14, but it does not have the correct flash supressor installed..it does not have a bayont lug!! Anyone out there have an extra GI Issue supressor they would be willing to part with??

 

Thanks.

 

1A291E

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Unless you are willing to spend $75-$175 for a USGI unit, I would suggest a quality repro. This is a good one http://www.lrbarms.com/parts.html . If you insist on USGI, try gunbroker.com . You will need a couple SAE allen wrenches (one is 7/64 and I can't remember the other off the top of my head but it is smaller), a rubber mallet, and a pair of castle nut pliers which you can get at a gun show or Brownell's http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=m14...arch=m14_pliers .

 

To install the flash suppressor:

1 remove the front sight

2 remove the castle nut retaining screw

3 loosen the castle nut with the castle nut pliers while slowly backing off the flash suppressor

your old one should be off now

4 hold the castle nut in the gap of the flash suppressor with the notches facing forward

5 slide the flash suppressor and castle nut over the barrel

6 tighten the castle nut as much as you can by hand and then push the flash suppressor on

repeat until you can't tighten the castle nut with your hand any more

7 tighten the castle nut with the pliers as much as you can reasonably

8 hit the end of the flash suppressor with a rubber mallet

repeat 7 and 8 until you can't tighten the castle nut any more

9 make sure the notch in the castle nut lines up with the castle nut retaining screw hole

if not, tighten (recommended) or loosen it until it does

10 install castle nut retaining screw and front sight

 

Dustin

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Pezboy is right on the money. We had Our M14 flash suppressors modified to NM std. by having their inner diameter reamed out. IIRC a bullet striking a water droplet on the bottom tine can make the bullet hit 6-12" high at 200M. Typically easier to just purchase one already to spec, then attempting to ream it yourself (unless you have a lathe and stubby front section of M14 Barrel hanging around)

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Not all selector equipped M-14s were issued to the automatic rifleman in the fire teams. Or maybe it was in the army. However, when I checked into HQ & Service Co of the Marine 1st Amphibious Tractor Bn, in Dec of '67 I was issued a selective fire M-14...not that I asked for it, it just came that way.

 

I cannot speak for Marine grunt units. Did USMC infantry units only issue them to the automatic rifleman in the fireteams? I only fired the M-14 full auto twice..once in practice, once in anger...couldn't hit doodly ding with it either time!

 

Later in '68 when I transferred into a grunt unit, 1st Bn 9th Marine Regt. I was issued an M-16..or rather an XM-16E1..but that's a whole nuther story.

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The original intent of the M14 and M15 was to have every soldier have the option of full auto if the SHTF. Otherwise, the rifles were to be fired in semi. The M15 was dropped after deciding it wasn't useful. Per the book there was supposed to be two automatic rifleman per squad. These rifles were fitted with bipods and selectors. Later the M14A1 and M14E2 were developed as easier to control automatic rifles. The other rifles could or could not have selectors, it was ultimately up to the Company Commander. Most rifles didn't have the selector installed to keep soldiers from "spraying and praying" and wasting ammo. I think some of the M21s were actually welded so that you couldn't install a selector.

Dustin

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This is an outstanding thread that has answered a lot of questions for me - thank you to all who have contributed!

 

One more question (for now): What sort of bipod was used by the M-14 automatic rifleman? Is it the same stamped sheet metal bipod used by the M-16 auto. rifleman?

 

Thanks again for the info.

 

Steve

Collecting 3rd Armored Division items of all kinds from all eras, specializing in the 36th Armored Infantry Regiment.

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The M16 bipod was used in the field by soldiers, but it wasn't supposed to be used or authorized for use. It fits on the bottom of the gas cylinder. The M2 bipod is what was issued. There is an early version without a sling swivel and a later version with a sling swivel. It attaches to the front part of the gas cylinder. The sling swivel was added so a longer sling could be attached to it for use with the M14E2 stock. The USGI bipod isn't recommended for use on a sniper rifle because it will change the point of impact of the rounds compared to standing or resting against an object. As with flash suppressors, there are a lot of fakes out there. Welded joints and a blued finish are signs of repros. USGI units are pretty expensive, especially if still containing the paint DAS or if they are NIW.

Dustin

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Unless you are willing to spend $75-$175 for a USGI unit, I would suggest a quality repro. This is a good one http://www.lrbarms.com/parts.html . If you insist on USGI, try gunbroker.com . You will need a couple SAE allen wrenches (one is 7/64 and I can't remember the other off the top of my head but it is smaller), a rubber mallet, and a pair of castle nut pliers which you can get at a gun show or Brownell's http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=m14...arch=m14_pliers .

 

To install the flash suppressor:

1 remove the front sight

2 remove the castle nut retaining screw

3 loosen the castle nut with the castle nut pliers while slowly backing off the flash suppressor

your old one should be off now

4 hold the castle nut in the gap of the flash suppressor with the notches facing forward

5 slide the flash suppressor and castle nut over the barrel

6 tighten the castle nut as much as you can by hand and then push the flash suppressor on

repeat until you can't tighten the castle nut with your hand any more

7 tighten the castle nut with the pliers as much as you can reasonably

8 hit the end of the flash suppressor with a rubber mallet

repeat 7 and 8 until you can't tighten the castle nut any more

9 make sure the notch in the castle nut lines up with the castle nut retaining screw hole

if not, tighten (recommended) or loosen it until it does

10 install castle nut retaining screw and front sight

 

Dustin

 

 

Thanks a bunch Dustin.

 

I think i'll buy the repro one, as it's way cheaper than an original GI issue one.

 

1A291E

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OK, We can now call this "Finally Done" as originally posted. The Sparrowhawk dummy selector came in yesterday and I took about 30 minutes this morning installing it.

2z6v3oz.jpg

 

I was told by the guy running the business that they stopped making rotating switches because some cops felt uneasy about a M-14 with a moving switch, so I was reluctant to buy his switch. However, I wanted the guide rod to make it look right and decided that I could deal with the switch not rotating. When I opened the package, to my surprise, the switch still had the spring in it and was simply lightly welded in place. About five minutes of light grinding and a light wack with a hammer and the switch was rotating again. I then installed the kit, had to grind down the front rail as the website says most newer SA M1A rifles will need.

I liked the way the Fulton filled the selector hole better, but I like the look of the full guide rod even better. If someone was wanting a Fulton rotating switch and didn't want the guide rod, I have one for a good deal!


Visit my eBay store: http://stores.ebay.com/crustyw4scorner/

 

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Inspired by the fact I was Given a SA M1A from a Bro for Free and reading this this thread I decided to build one as well. Originally it had a G.I. Fiberglass Stock with Black Crinkle paint finish and rubber buttpad (which offends my sensibilities).

Used Citri Strip on the Stock, Got a Buttplate from Numrich

Stock is Walnut G.I. Issue with DoD Cartouche and Circle P on grip.
NM Flash Suppressor fitted
Sparrowhawk Farms Button Kit (which did take a Bit of Grinding to get the reciever to clear it).

Anyhow, to the Pics:

The Start:
i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/DSCF0161-1

The Finish:

i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/DSCF0177
i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/DSCF0173
i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/DSCF0174
i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/DSCF0175
i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/DSCF0176

Still to Acquire:
M6 Bayonet and Scabbard
Blank Firing Adapter
M2 Bipod/Stabilizer

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Linedoggie: that's a great looking lineup you got there! :thumbsup:

Terry

I built the M4 from Parts as I have several Pre Ban Lowers sitting around. It's the same set up I carried in Baghdad less the EO tech ( I used my own M68 then). I've had the M1903 the Longest, purchased it in 1981 while in Basic at Ft. Sill. Was on pass in town and bought it, waltzed back to the unit to have it stored in the arms room (As per the little blue book they gave us before Basic) Walked right past the MP at the gate and he didnt say a word.

 

Apparently, this caused a ruckus among the Drill Sergeants when they heard I had a rifle outside the orderly room.

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That's great! I'll look there, too. I found one at the gun show yesterday, but it was used, supposedly a "National Match" flash suppressor, and they wanted $100 for it. I'll wait until I have the rifle first.

 

Is there such a thing as a National Match flash suppressor?

 

Absolutely!

It is a standard suppressor that has been reamed out with a number three taper reamer. It's small up next to the muzzle and tapers out to almost .50 cal at the end.

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I don't have a clue as to what a flash suppressor has to do with accuracy, unless it is used as weight. :think:

 

I called Sparrowhawk and his dummy selectors do not rotate, they are fixed in place, so I am in a quandry now as the Fulton Armory selector rotates in place. I'm wondering if the op rod connector can be bought and it worked into my dummy selector? Decisions decisions.

 

I believe the reason "hawk welds his solid is to prevent ANY conflict with BATFE regulations. This is an area that demands much caution. I know and I'm sure that you know that the addition of one of these dummy devices is perfectly harmless, BUT spending $10,000 to $30,000 on lawyers to convince BATFE may not be cost effective.

 

Bill D

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Hawkdriver,

 

I finally got around to installing the dummy selector on my M14SA. (Mine's the type that would not allow for full-auto fire vice the full-auto selector switch. This was the most common type found on issue M14's. Most were issued fitted for semi-auto only fire.) It took a while to get the kit from Sparrow Hawk Farms, but worth the wait.

 

For anyone else considering this addition, I'd recommend it. It's pretty easy. I would suggest a slight modification to the instructions on the Sparrow Hawk Farms web site, really just a change in the sequence of steps. The dummy selector that I mounted required fitting in three dimensions: first is the side-to-side clearance so that the dummy selector switch and the connector will clear the outside of the stock; second is the clearance of the rear of the receiver to the selector switch; third is the clearance of the front of the receiver to the front end of the connector. The clearancing of the dummy selector should be made in that sequence to avoid having to go back and re-do previous work.

 

I still have a pretty tight fit between the selector switch, the rear end of the connector, and the outside of the stock. I may go back and remove the rivet used by Tony at Sparrow Hawk Farms to hold the stock mount and the switch together and replace it with a machine screw with a washer between the mount and switch to provide a bit more clearance. I could trim away some wood from the stock, but I want to keep the stock un-modified and make any necessary changes on the dummy selector.

 

Still, it's a nice cosmetic addition and fills that void in the military issue stock for the original selector switch.

 

Mike

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"Hope is not a course of action." Sean P. Kelly, SSG, 1st US Ranger Battalion

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I believe the reason "hawk welds his solid is to prevent ANY conflict with BATFE regulations. This is an area that demands much caution. I know and I'm sure that you know that the addition of one of these dummy devices is perfectly harmless, BUT spending $10,000 to $30,000 on lawyers to convince BATFE may not be cost effective.

 

Bill D

 

This situation would not cost you a dime. ATF field agents are not stupid, as soon as the receiver was popped out of the stock showing it was not connected to the dummy switch that would be the end of the discussion.

donation2008.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2013.gif

 

Looking for original photos and other items from the First World War US 77th Infantry Division.

Also interested in BAR and M1917A1 BMG related items.

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