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TIFFANY STYLE PILOT WINGS


joshypogi
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flyingfortress

Not very good images of the wing can't tell if it's die struck or cast, although the locking clasp looks correct for a Tiffany wing. However, the seller already canceled all bids and closed the auction. That in itself might raise suspicion as to its authenticity.

 

Regards, George

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Not very good images of the wing can't tell if it's die struck or cast, although the locking clasp looks correct for a Tiffany wing. However, the seller already canceled all bids and closed the auction. That in itself might raise suspicion as to its authenticity.

 

Regards, George

 

Yes it is really hard to tell based on the photos.

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I was looking at this Tiffany wing on Ebay, #140346165978, any clue if this is a original. This is the second one listed on Ebay.

 

I have had the honor to have received three Tiffany wings direct from the families of the vets that wore them, and have seen another two or so over the years that were direct from the families as well. All have had polished backs that were mirror like in appearence. They were highly detailed and the logo was clearly struck. I noticed that the Tiffany wings listed on e-bay recently appeared to have a rough texture to the back which to me indicated that they were probably cast copies. I have also seen several Tiffany wings show up on e-bay with the US riveted to the shield, the back of the wings showing the heads of the rivet. Of all the original Tiffany wings I have seen, none had been constructed in that manner. I would be extremely cautious and would need a linage to the wing with a return guarentee if I was to jump in on a purchase on that scale. A original Tiffany in todays market should go in the $2500 to $3000 range, I have seen them sell for as much as $7500 in the past couple years.

 

Good hunting, Terry Morris

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I was looking at this Tiffany wing on Ebay, #140346165978, any clue if this is a original. This is the second one listed on Ebay.

 

joshypogi,

 

Went back and looked at the last Tiffany remaining on E-bay. A wing that the dealer attributes to a Lt. Edgar Shaner. Look at the back of the wing in particular around the pin base on the right as you look at it. Notice the pebbled finish and also notice the couple dimples elsewhere on the wing. In my opinion what we have here is a person that has acquired an Appointment Document and picture of a WW1 pilot and attached a cast copy wing to make a "Wonderful group". Lt. Shaner was indeed a WW1 RMA who came out of New Jersey, but I seriously doubt that this wing came from the same period. Buyer beware.

Also there is listed on e-bay an Observers uniform of Captain rank. Item #230377660319, nothing about this uniform is right. The wing is a complete fake, as is the roundel. The captains bars are something out of the mist and the NG US and signal flags are not consistant with WW1 aviators. I could buy a USR collar insignia but not a NG. Completely put together uniform just for the poor collector that will buy off on it.

 

Terry Morris

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I was looking at this Tiffany wing on Ebay, #140346165978, any clue if this is a original. This is the second one listed on Ebay.

 

I believe that this one had some chance at being a good one, but without better photos it was a hard call. The catch is correct for Tiffany wings, that I can tell.

 

The other wing that is mentioned (to Shaner) is discussed in the pinned fakes and reproduction thread at the top. THat is a 100% :thumbdown: POS. The wings on the observer uniform are also discussed (briefly) in the fakes and reproductions thread as well.

 

Patrick

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I believe that this one had some chance at being a good one, but without better photos it was a hard call. The catch is correct for Tiffany wings, that I can tell.

 

The other wing that is mentioned (to Shaner) is discussed in the pinned fakes and reproduction thread at the top. THat is a 100% :thumbdown: POS. The wings on the observer uniform are also discussed (briefly) in the fakes and reproductions thread as well.

 

Patrick

 

 

 

Patrick,

 

I bought several items from this seller and all have turned out to be original. Do you have photos similar to this Tiffany wing, if so can you provide some photos.

 

Thank you,

Jason

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HI Joshi,

 

I have seen and handled a few in one of my friend's collections. Maybe he can be coerced to post some pictures.

 

I have a theory that Tiffany didn't actually make their wings, but rather got them from another company (in this case Johnson MFG co of NY). I have a picture of these wings that were sent to me by someone a few years ago.

 

As you can see, the quality of the wing is spectacular. Without better pictures, the one on ebay was a crap-shoot IMHO. I would have wanted much higher quality pics and more detailed images (and a return policy). Still, what I could see, it looked like it had some potential.

 

This dealer seems to be selling militaria and he seems to know what he had. I suspect that someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse. But the "sold as is and you are the judge" line SEEMED a bit dishonest to me. A militaria dealer NOT knowing the value of WWI wing and the value of what many consider the top of the line of the WWI wings????!????

 

Patrick

post-1519-1253213414.jpg

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And here is the one on the recent auction. The pictures aren't that good.

 

The bad: The detail is lacking on the front, the finish seems off, and the hallmark is weak.

 

The good: It seems to have the proper "lever-secured" catch characteristic of some of the higher quality wings, including Tiffany.

 

As I said, I wouldn't have made a move on this wing until I had much better and clearer pictures and an iron-clad return policy.

 

my gut says :thumbdown: but I could be wrong.

 

Some other points...For me, the details that are very hard to capture are the stars and lines in the shield. The Johnson wing, which I believe is 100% vintage has all the very fine detail you want to see, the other two wings are lacking, even by the bad photos.

 

Also, I have noticed that now many fakers try to capture the BACK of the wings and neglect the front of the wings (as opposed to the past, where the opposite was true). That is (MHO) because most collectors now seem to immediately turn over a wing and study the back. So, its not all that shocking that now the fakers focus on making a back of a wing that seems to be without the usually flaws. This then means that sometimes the front of the wing gets ignored. I have seen wings with very good backs, but with much of the detail in the front gone. In the past, it was just the opposite.

 

P

post-1519-1253214901.jpg

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I was looking at this Tiffany wing on Ebay, #140346165978, any clue if this is a original. This is the second one listed on Ebay.

 

Josh,

Attached are a couple pic of a good Tiffany wing. This one was received directly from the family of Lt. Harry H. Haw. Notice the smooth back and the detail in the feathering on the front. It was mentioned that there was some thought about these being made by Johnson. If you lay a Johnson up next to a Tiffany you will see significant difference between the two wings. Hope this helps.

 

Terry

post-6022-1253230666.jpg

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Josh,

Attached are a couple pic of a good Tiffany wing. This one was received directly from the family of Lt. Harry H. Haw. Notice the smooth back and the detail in the feathering on the front. It was mentioned that there was some thought about these being made by Johnson. If you lay a Johnson up next to a Tiffany you will see significant difference between the two wings. Hope this helps.

 

Terry

post-6022-1253230761.jpg

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And here is the one on the recent auction. The pictures aren't that good.

 

The bad: The detail is lacking on the front, the finish seems off, and the hallmark is weak.

 

The good: It seems to have the proper "lever-secured" catch characteristic of some of the higher quality wings, including Tiffany.

 

As I said, I wouldn't have made a move on this wing until I had much better and clearer pictures and an iron-clad return policy.

 

my gut says :thumbdown: but I could be wrong.

 

Some other points...For me, the details that are very hard to capture are the stars and lines in the shield. The Johnson wing, which I believe is 100% vintage has all the very fine detail you want to see, the other two wings are lacking, even by the bad photos.

 

Also, I have noticed that now many fakers try to capture the BACK of the wings and neglect the front of the wings (as opposed to the past, where the opposite was true). That is (MHO) because most collectors now seem to immediately turn over a wing and study the back. So, its not all that shocking that now the fakers focus on making a back of a wing that seems to be without the usually flaws. This then means that sometimes the front of the wing gets ignored. I have seen wings with very good backs, but with much of the detail in the front gone. In the past, it was just the opposite.

 

P

 

 

The stars are way smaller compared to the ones posted by Patrick and confirmed tiffany wings. The reals ones have more pronounced stars. Thank you for elaborating this further and the pictures. A really great replica if it is. It is so much harder to collect nowadays with the rampat outburst of "POS" fakes, specially with so much money are at stake. This forum really helps begginer collectors a lot.

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The stars are way smaller compared to the ones posted by Patrick and confirmed tiffany wings. The reals ones have more pronounced stars. Thank you for elaborating this further and the pictures. A really great replica if it is. It is so much harder to collect nowadays with the rampat outburst of "POS" fakes, specially with so much money are at stake. This forum really helps begginer collectors a lot.

 

Jason,

 

You are correct. This forum has become a unique reference. Some of the most knowledgeable collectors in the Wing collecting fraternity regularly post here.

 

Many of us spent decades of study, chasing after sometimes arcane and often erroneous information, trying to learn esoteric details that can now be asked with a simple question here. That's not sour grapes, its just a fact. Without a doubt, participating in this forum has become one of the best ways to learn about WW1 wings.

 

On other forums, they have unwritten policies to the effect of; "why should I share my hard earned knowledge with my collecting competition." USMF is blissfully free of that sort of attitude, far more in evidence here is a spirit of shared knowledge and camaraderie.

 

I have said it before; it is a pleasure to moderate this forum.

 

Chris

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:blush: Aw shucks.... You're going to make us all blush.

 

I have to echo CW's sentiments. Recalling what it used to be like trying to learn something about wings in the past. sheesh, what a nightmare. Now...not so much! :thumbsup:

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