Torch03 Posted September 11, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 11, 2009 Picked this jacket up of ebay. Do not have it in my hands yet. Would like to know if anyone has seen/has the bullion 187th patch that's on the uniform. Looks like it has age, but I have never seen one like this before. I have seen pleanty of these on twill (repro/fantasy) never old/bullion like this one. Want to know if it's legit or fantasy/repro. Thanks, Mayy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted September 12, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 12, 2009 I was watching this one as well. I got the feeling the patch was a repro... However, many things stand out that are positive on this uniform- All of the insignia is correct and looks of age. Make sure when you get it to remove all the clutches one by one to check the back. Vintage clutches from Korea will have either the flat back if they're left over from WWII, or they will be the type with 8 evenly spaced pimples in groups of 2, but they MUST have the patent no. to be of era. The clutches with 8 pimples arranged with 3 on a side and an elipse (?) on the top/bottom are no good. that being said.... The oval is correct for the time period. After 1953 the 187th changed the oval to blue and red I think..something like that. If there is any trace of a name, you can research the purple heart for KW casualties. One thing I also want to mention is, if this WERE a fake, I would assume there would be a lot more ribbons and a CIB, since everyone loves a CIB. I wouldn't think anyone would fake an Artillery uniform, only because it's not as 'appealing' as an infantry uniform would be. You know what I'm getting at? So perhaps if the patch is repro, it is the only piece not original. I hope the best for you, though. If it's legit, you got a hell of a sweet deal! Let me know if you ever need anymore help with this one, I'd be happy to assist you. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch03 Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted September 12, 2009 I was watching this one as well. I got the feeling the patch was a repro... However, many things stand out that are positive on this uniform- All of the insignia is correct and looks of age. Make sure when you get it to remove all the clutches one by one to check the back. Vintage clutches from Korea will have either the flat back if they're left over from WWII, or they will be the type with 8 evenly spaced pimples in groups of 2, but they MUST have the patent no. to be of era. The clutches with 8 pimples arranged with 3 on a side and an elipse (?) on the top/bottom are no good. that being said.... The oval is correct for the time period. After 1953 the 187th changed the oval to blue and red I think..something like that. If there is any trace of a name, you can research the purple heart for KW casualties. One thing I also want to mention is, if this WERE a fake, I would assume there would be a lot more ribbons and a CIB, since everyone loves a CIB. I wouldn't think anyone would fake an Artillery uniform, only because it's not as 'appealing' as an infantry uniform would be. You know what I'm getting at? So perhaps if the patch is repro, it is the only piece not original. I hope the best for you, though. If it's legit, you got a hell of a sweet deal! Let me know if you ever need anymore help with this one, I'd be happy to assist you. Rob Thnaks for the reply Rob. Yeah, wasn't going to bid becouse of the patch. I have had a few old timers tell me that the 187th never had/wore this patch. We shall see! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted September 12, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 12, 2009 I'm sure if this officer wanted it, he would have no problem getting it. I've seen a lot of repro 187th patches, but only a few uniforms with any 187th patches on them. In fact, the only 187th uniforms I've seen (not even half a dozen) were solid original. I have two that are the real deal, and they use the standard embroidered royal blue patch. But, these are enlisted soldiers, so if they got caught wearing sexy bullion, it was a no no for a stickler officer. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch03 Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted September 12, 2009 I'm sure if this officer wanted it, he would have no problem getting it. I've seen a lot of repro 187th patches, but only a few uniforms with any 187th patches on them. In fact, the only 187th uniforms I've seen (not even half a dozen) were solid original. I have two that are the real deal, and they use the standard embroidered royal blue patch. But, these are enlisted soldiers, so if they got caught wearing sexy bullion, it was a no no for a stickler officer. Rob I had 2 named 187th jackets (enlisted) that were killer. The problem with this 1 is that no one has seen 1 of these being worn or in the possesion of a 187th vet. Plus I think this 1 has been hamd sewn (which I doubt an Officer would do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch03 Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted September 12, 2009 I had 2 named 187th jackets (enlisted) that were killer. The problem with this 1 is that no one has seen 1 of these being worn or in the possesion of a 187th vet. Plus I think this 1 has been hamd sewn (which I doubt an Officer would do) Any interest in selling or trading your 187th jackets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted September 12, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 12, 2009 PM Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted September 13, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 13, 2009 Any of you notice that the SSI is sewn crooked, is still flat as a pancake with no signs of bending or suppleness, the crease stops at the bottom of the SSI, and that all the embroidery and medium is typical paki? The repro SSI is the only concern, not ribbons or other awards. The fake SSI was added to enhance the jacket and raise the price (vs. no SSI and the jacket in the same configuration) to some unknowing buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted September 13, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 13, 2009 If this were a genuine Korean War era jacket, it would date from after the spring of 1953 when the National Defense Service Medal was created. And I have seen uniforms in period pictures into the 60's with no NDSM ribbon so it wasn't necessarily worn right right away. Also, I believe into the early 60's the Korean and Phillipine Presidential Unit Citations were worn on the left pocket flap underneath the other ribbons, not above the right flap with the U.S. PUC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted September 13, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 13, 2009 The placement of the DUC (or PUC) is debateable. When it first came out, like a few of these foreign unit citations, the placement was authorized by the regiment or division, not the entire Army. Sometimes it was the soldier's own discretion. Since it was a foreign award, many wore it below all other ribbons on the left pocket. Since it was a unit citation, many wore it over the right pocket. I've seen both done equally. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALERY Posted September 13, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 13, 2009 Bonjour, This jacket switches on many red lights: -187th RCT awarded Korean PUC on the october 18, 1953 but confirmation was announced by GO N°23 on March 31, 1954. According to thousand of pics, the KPUC is worn on the left side by all the members ; -the ultramarine outer border, white inner and red center oval is officially worn since may 1954 by all the units of the RCT ; -since june 1952, the last type of the 187th SSI is worn by all the paratroopers ; -the SSI is for me one of the different type of insignias made during the early months of the 187th in Korea when no particular SSI was adopted. It is however crudely sewn for a such jacket. I'm not in patches so I could not give any assessment about it. So, we have a KPUC worn on the wrong side, medals not correctly displayed, a wrong oval for this time frame and for the unit (except if he's the artillery LNO). Hope it could help you Cheers Valery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIl Sanow Posted September 13, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 13, 2009 Interestingly, I saw dozens of 187th patches at ASMIC this weekend -- not a one was of this pattern. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEPROX Posted September 13, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 13, 2009 what background oval is that on the jacket??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted September 14, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 14, 2009 It is the 187th RCT oval used BEFORE 1953, IIRC. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch03 Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted September 14, 2009 It is the 187th RCT oval used BEFORE 1953, IIRC. Rob I ended up contacting the seller and voiced my concerns. He refunded my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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