River Patrol Posted September 6, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 6, 2009 A general question on metal rank used by SF troopers in Vietnam (pre-'72) on their beret flash; Did they use subdued metal rank(s)? Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_redcatcher Posted September 6, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 6, 2009 only officers wore rank and it was the "color" ones, so for the most part silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 6, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 6, 2009 Officers also wore subdued(black) as well, I have a pic of a SOG guys beret and it has a black Lt. bar on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted September 6, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 6, 2009 I have a green beret with black Captains bars.Have owned it for twenty years.Dont recal where or who I got it from.Was when I was an AMMUC member so came out of the east coast area as I did a lot of buying and trading with guys in North and South Carolina. Anyway..I have always been suspect of the flash (theatre made and no border)and it had a patch in the liner of the beret.The beret had been lined with a black rayon type material.To the material was sewn a patch.A vulture in a beret sitting on a tree limb with the motto"Patience My rump..Im gonna kill someone". Then a couple months ago Im looking at pictures on a SOG post and low and behold there is the vulture.Some place I have the beret packed away and will try to post it. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Patrol Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted September 6, 2009 OK. I also have a SF Green beret with captains bar, subdued. It came from Ebay a number of years ago, from an estate sale, but the seller didn't get a name. I was certain it was a wartime (pre-'72) beret/flash/rank but had seen no photographic evidence to date. IF Spike has a photograph, that's good enough to confirm my hunch on the beret. It wasn't the norm, but certainly possible! Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGM (ret.) Posted September 7, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 7, 2009 Anything is possible, but the beret was not intended for field wear so only full-color insignia was (and is) authorized. Of course, the lines between what is considered "field" and not are often blurred, add in the "Hollywood" factor, and again, it's possible. However, subdued officer rank on the Green Beret should be considered a rare exception, at best. Without ironclad provanance, anyone can pin subdued rank onto a beret. Keep in mind that there has never been an official subdued color flash or DUI, so adding subdued officer rank to a full-color flash while your enlisted team mates have those bright, shiny SF crests on their berets would be taking things a bit far. The "Hollywood" factor, though, is a pretty strong theme in RVN SF items. I would think a theater-made subdued flash with embroidered rank more likely than some young LT or CPT pinning subdued rank onto his beret. (Not that I've ever seen such a thing as an all embroidered subdued flash with rank. I have seen all embroidered full-color, though!) I would think it so very unlikely as to be almost impossible to find a field grade (MAJ or above) officer doing that. Look to the provanance of the specific item. Without that, it's just a beret with the wrong insiginia on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 7, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 7, 2009 This beret came from a SOG B Co. Exploitation Force grouping that was broken up in the mid-80, it is a fairly well known groupng that I had a few pieces of that I have since gotten rid of. I had a chance to buy the whole grouping which consisted of a Sog 1-0 vest, the guy's fully patched S.F shirt including a shell burst patch, 1-0 jacket, I had it for awhile but when I got it it had been stripped of some of the patches, a lighter, got rid of that too, and this beret and some misc. items, I couldn't afford it at the time. I remember this beret and had it in my hands, the subdued Lt. bar had been on there for along time. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted September 8, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 8, 2009 "Turkey" Teeter's beret. I now own his Zippo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Patrol Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted September 8, 2009 .....so adding subdued officer rank to a full-color flash while your enlisted team mates have those bright, shiny SF crests on their berets would be taking things a bit far. Correct, but its "in-line" with those that like to bend the rules or give off that 'Hollywood' look that some SF officers sought to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk3370 Posted September 22, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 22, 2009 This beret came from a SOG B Co. Exploitation Force grouping that was broken up in the mid-80, it is a fairly well known groupng that I had a few pieces of that I have since gotten rid of. I had a chance to buy the whole grouping which consisted of a Sog 1-0 vest, the guy's fully patched S.F shirt including a shell burst patch, 1-0 jacket, I had it for awhile but when I got it it had been stripped of some of the patches, a lighter, got rid of that too, and this beret and some misc. items, I couldn't afford it at the time. I remember this beret and had it in my hands, the subdued Lt. bar had been on there for along time. It is what it is. I know that there are exceptions to everything especially in aviation and special forces units. However having spent most of my 25 years in SF and Aviation units I personally never saw a subdued rank insignia on a beret. I felt I was somewhat out of line in that I wore WW1 false embroidered metal captains bars on my green beret and I got no less than a few comments from superior officers, but I continued to wear it, later moving it over to my maroon beret when I went back to the 82nd. The beret was not worn in the field rather we wore floppy type hats or just a bandana tied around our heads mostly to protect against sun and sweat. As for the liners, the first thing we did when we got a new beret was to cut the liner out. It made the beret fit better and was easier to fold it up to stick under the shoulder strap on the fatique jacket or up under our belt when we entered a building. Maj (Ret) T. R. Morris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted September 22, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 22, 2009 Sorry Guys- I'm with the MAJ & SGM. Never saw any officer put subdued rank on a beret. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Andrews Posted September 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 22, 2009 When subdued insignia came in, Stateside, in 1968, at first all officers put subdued rank on their headgear. But within months, orders came out saying that OFFICER headgear rank MUST be non-subdued, to make officers more recognizable at a distance. This came up again in 1983-1985 as the BDUs seeped into general issue -- subdueds went on, then they were ordered off. When I was in RVN, 1970-1971, practice varied, about 50-50, depending on unit SOP and individual preference (and no officer rank at all was used on boonie hats BTW). While I have info on 5th SFGA or USARV policy, perhaps the subdueds were put on in the "transitional period", between availability of the emblems and formulation of policy prohibiting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted September 22, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 22, 2009 Something additional- We all cut the liners out of our berets, some guys replaced or had embroidered SOG, CCN etc. I know of several guys who actually had their wives panties sewn in as replacement liners. No kidding! Hadn't thought of that in years. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 23, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 23, 2009 OK guys, you're right, that beret, SOG vest, 1-0 jacket, zippo and everything that came with that Exploitaion Force grouping must be bogus because the beret had an metal subdued rank on it that nobody saw, I'm sure even his name is fake. The pictures must be fake too. Oh well, can't please everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copran Posted September 23, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 23, 2009 I know of several guys who actually had their wives panties sewn in as replacement liners. No kidding! Hadn't thought of that in years. SKIP Do you mean like that ? 76 dated beret. I got it with 2 other berets, but the family didn't want to sell his jacket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted September 23, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 23, 2009 COPAN- Yup! That's the correct time frame that I remember. A whole new demand for berets is in it's infancy. SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cszakolczai Posted September 24, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 24, 2009 I personally just picked up a Beret from a Major and it is not subdued.I have to go with the Major and the rest of the folks here. As they said, there are always exceptions, but for the most part they were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-X Posted September 27, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 27, 2009 By the way what color rank did you wear on your beret? Just curious! That was a little uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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