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Cleaning an M1


flyer333555
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Guys-

 

I realize this is after the fact, and I did not found this forum until recently. Please comment...

 

Back in 1964 or 1966 my father acquired a Schleuter shell and Capac liner in exchange for a basketball. Although we were not sure at the time we suspected it was WWII. A month ago I went back to get that helmet, as I need it for historical interpretation. It has spent most of these years upside in a closet with bugs and possibly mice.

 

The shell is badly in need of paint and retexture although it is intact and no rust scales. There is what appears to be original hardware, OD#7 chinstraps bartacked to swivel bails, buckle seems to be steel stamped. All painted black. The suspension is OD#3, there was no sweatband or nape strap but the nape band mount was there. No leather belt either.

 

I cleaned both the following way. Used water with dishwashing liquid and scrubbed with a sponge both inside and outside the liner and shell, then the chinstraps and suspension. After this I scrubbed with a soft toothbrush and baking soda. Then white vinegar. Lastly I rinsed until no soap residue was left. Then air dried.

 

After this treatment I found some damage. The nape mounting strap became a little looser and one part of the horizontal band tore halfway up at an "A" washer.

 

We had no history of the helmet so I figured that to wear this helmet at historical interpretation events was to either clean it or change the suspension and chinstraps.

 

Beginner's luck, it happens the helmet was not a Hawley. I guess the method I used would have destroyed a Hawley...

 

For collection purposes, would you subject a helmet or liner of which you know the history and with original suspension to the above cleansing method?

 

Thanks,

 

Luis Ramos

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I am sorry, but, if I were you, I would just buy a restored M1 from a place like: www.toppots.net , www.jmurrayinc1944.com or www.atthefront.com . What you did so far to clean the helmet won't ruin it, but personally I like a salty M1. I'd leave this one as is. The websites mentioned above recork and repaint WWII M1s, you can choose fix bail or swivel, the ladder being cheaper, sew on repro straps, and take a original WWII liner in bad shape, remove everything, strip the paint, reweb it and repaint the outside, and you can choose for it to have a repro sweatband, nape and leather chinstrap. Remember, this helmet is anywhere from 65 to 70 years old. It is going to be a bit soiled, rusty, and dirty, what is referred to as "salty" like I mentioned. So, if you want a perfect, like new helmet for these historical interpretations, you can either drop anywhere from 350 to 600 dollars for a like new mint fix or swivel bail, rear seam being around 150 or so, or you can just buy a repro like I mentioned. But I strongly suggest against replacing everything. And no, sorry, I am not going to clean my mint, FB helmet and liner with soap and a toothbrush, nor my extremely salty FB that has ripped suspension and lots of soiling :D

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Thanks for your opinion.

 

I did look at JMurray, At The Front, and Top Pots and basically they do not repaint or retexture the helmets.$150 for a helmet is way too much expensive, really out of my budget, not to say $600!!! :ermm:

 

However I am satisfied with the cleaning I gave and will not do any more except look for someone to retexture the shell. The liner is more or less in good shape with minor scuffing but IMHO does not need any more cleaning or repainting. I guess I do not care for "salty" unless I can document the procedence. After reading your response, if I happen upon another helmet I will be more careful of what I do to it.

 

And if I do get a mint helmet, I will put it inside a glass display case and no one but no one will touch it. :rolleyes:

 

Luis R.

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Luis:

 

Don't be too hard on yourself. I've cleaned most of the M1's in my collection (Hawley liner excepted) using a similar process (without the baking soda and vinigar, just soap and water and gentle scrubbing). After drying, I coated the hard surfaces with Ren Wax. This was done, in some cases, well over 15 years ago. The helmets are still looking good with the occasional vacuuming and gentle dusting.

 

I don't really like the overly "salty" look either since the dirt is usually just grunge from a half century of poor storage and careless handling. There are, of course exceptions to that, but as you said, with no provanance the dirt is just that. I spent over 26 years on active duty in the US Army, and in my experience, dirty personal equipment is the exception rather than the rule for the troops. I don't think that things have changed so much, sergeants being sergeants.

 

I suppose that you could come across an artifact that's been in the hands of the original GI since he brought it back from the war that could have traces of the sands of the beaches of Normandy still in it. However, odds are actually pretty good that even if the artifact comes from the original owner's hands direct to yours, that he was required to clean it sometime before he demobilized. So, most, if not all, of the dirt on it now is from the intervening decades.

 

But a thick layer of dust, insect cocoons and webs, loose paint and rust flakes, etc are, IMHO, an invitation to futher deterioration from other insects, absorbtion of moisture from the air inviting more rust besides being un-sightly. It's also not possible to put any kind of protective coating over dirt. All in all, dirt is harmful to the prolonged life of antiques. The potential harm outweighs the slight additional (and questionable) historical interest.

 

There are also those who feel that the dirt is the aging equal of the patina found on other antiques and a sure sign of authenticity. Maybe so, but I think that 60+ years of natural age needs no gratuitous dirt to embelish it. No need to clean a minty artifact, but a grubby barn-find? In my opinion: oh heck yes.

 

Having said all of the above, though, it's really a matter of personal tastes. Which is why I said, don't be too hard on yourself. There are other opinions on the issue, but you're off to a good start by soliciting advice here on USMF.

 

Good luck on your future collecting and historical interpretation.

 

Mike

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Luis:

 

Don't be too hard on yourself. I've cleaned most of the M1's in my collection (Hawley liner excepted) using a similar process (without the baking soda and vinigar, just soap and water and gentle scrubbing). After drying, I coated the hard surfaces with Ren Wax. This was done, in some cases, well over 15 years ago. The helmets are still looking good with the occasional vacuuming and gentle dusting.

 

I don't really like the overly "salty" look either since the dirt is usually just grunge from a half century of poor storage and careless handling. There are, of course exceptions to that, but as you said, with no provanance the dirt is just that. I spent over 26 years on active duty in the US Army, and in my experience, dirty personal equipment is the exception rather than the rule for the troops. I don't think that things have changed so much, sergeants being sergeants.

 

I suppose that you could come across an artifact that's been in the hands of the original GI since he brought it back from the war that could have traces of the sands of the beaches of Normandy still in it. However, odds are actually pretty good that even if the artifact comes from the original owner's hands direct to yours, that he was required to clean it sometime before he demobilized. So, most, if not all, of the dirt on it now is from the intervening decades.

 

But a thick layer of dust, insect cocoons and webs, loose paint and rust flakes, etc are, IMHO, an invitation to futher deterioration from other insects, absorbtion of moisture from the air inviting more rust besides being un-sightly. It's also not possible to put any kind of protective coating over dirt. All in all, dirt is harmful to the prolonged life of antiques. The potential harm outweighs the slight additional (and questionable) historical interest.

 

There are also those who feel that the dirt is the aging equal of the patina found on other antiques and a sure sign of authenticity. Maybe so, but I think that 60+ years of natural age needs no gratuitous dirt to embelish it. No need to clean a minty artifact, but a grubby barn-find? In my opinion: oh heck yes.

 

Having said all of the above, though, it's really a matter of personal tastes. Which is why I said, don't be too hard on yourself. There are other opinions on the issue, but you're off to a good start by soliciting advice here on USMF.

 

Good luck on your future collecting and historical interpretation.

 

Mike

 

Ok, I guess I interpreted that wrong. I was talking about original saltiness from the war. Now I see you mean many years in a closet with insect webs, etc. and non-wartime aging, I would totally clean it. Start by repainting the shell, and depending on shape of straps, you may want to replace them. Then, I would leave liner paint alone, and remove all the webbing. The websites I mentioned before sell repro webbing kits, but you would need to buy the sweatband, nape and leather chinstrap in addition, depending on what et you choose. See if they have a rivet setter, and ask for directions.

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Mike-

 

A question on the Hawley. What does the Hawley logo looks like? Another question on the company's name. Was the name Hawley Products Company?

 

Now that I have that helmet, want to know more stuff about it. This is now like the proverbial pebble in the shoe. Must have these answers! I posted this question at another thread in this forum...

 

:think:

 

Thanks

 

Luis R.

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