Jump to content

Bastard lovechild of a M3 and a M1905E1??


leicanthrope
 Share

Recommended Posts

leicanthrope

Does anyone know what's going on here? It looks like the handle and guard of a M3 trench knife, but the blade looks more like the cut down blade of an M1905E1 bayonet with a slightly shorter fuller.

 

DSC01016.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, someone had fun in recovering guard and handle of an M3, possibly with broken blade, and put this stuff on an absed bayonet blade. This guy forgot to keep the leather washers in the proper order and did a messed handle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leicanthrope

Thanks! For $20, it'll work well enough for reenacting. I don't have it in hand yet, so it might be possible to reorder the washers.

 

What's "absed"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was "abused" but the "u" didn't come out the keyboard.

P.S. Replace that repro M6 leather scabbard with an original M8.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leicanthrope
It was "abused" but the "u" didn't come out the keyboard.

P.S. Replace that repro M6 leather scabbard with an original M8.

 

Already covered in that department.

 

How bad is that M6?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what you have was built from a portion of the blade from a M1912 saber. Years ago one of the mail order military goods dealers (I think P&S Sales) was selling "trench" knives that were made from cut up blades from the "Patton" saber. It appeared that one saber blade made three knives. The handles on those knives were wood or at least appeared to be wood in the catalog. I never ordered one, and now wish I had ordered a dozen.

 

The blade on the knife you show appears to have been finished bright, as were the M1912 saber blades, rather than parkerized and then polished. The curved upper edge of the blade also suggests that the blade came from a M1912. I think this blade was made from the center of the original blade. The knives in the catalog made from the pointy end of the blade were simply the original point of the blade. The knives made from the hilt end of the blade retained the portion of the blade with the markings. The center part of the saber required the most work because the blade had to be reduced to make the handle portion and the blade ground to a point.

 

I think it is likely this was done during WWII and that yours was either one of the blades remanufactured as above and the wood handle replaced with the handle of an M3 or independently done by someone that wanted a trench knife. The blades if the M1912 sabers were made from very good quality steel. It could be that whoever made these up made more than one and armed his buddies. IMO this is an item that it would be interesting to know the history.

 

I vaguely recall that the cut down Patton sabers are shown in one of Cole's books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greg Robinson
I think what you have was built from a portion of the blade from a M1912 saber. Years ago one of the mail order military goods dealers (I think P&S Sales) was selling "trench" knives that were made from cut up blades from the "Patton" saber. It appeared that one saber blade made three knives. The handles on those knives were wood or at least appeared to be wood in the catalog. I never ordered one, and now wish I had ordered a dozen.

 

The blade on the knife you show appears to have been finished bright, as were the M1912 saber blades, rather than parkerized and then polished. The curved upper edge of the blade also suggests that the blade came from a M1912. I think this blade was made from the center of the original blade. The knives in the catalog made from the pointy end of the blade were simply the original point of the blade. The knives made from the hilt end of the blade retained the portion of the blade with the markings. The center part of the saber required the most work because the blade had to be reduced to make the handle portion and the blade ground to a point.

 

I think it is likely this was done during WWII and that yours was either one of the blades remanufactured as above and the wood handle replaced with the handle of an M3 or independently done by someone that wanted a trench knife. The blades if the M1912 sabers were made from very good quality steel. It could be that whoever made these up made more than one and armed his buddies. IMO this is an item that it would be interesting to know the history.

 

I vaguely recall that the cut down Patton sabers are shown in one of Cole's books.

 

Yep...I believe you're on the right track with that theory rather than it being an M3 trench knife blade. I have a WW2 knife made out of a cut up "Patton" sabre with a leather wrapped handle and it's similar to what's shown in the pic. But the blade is much narrower. My guess is it's a sword blade but not a "Patton", possibly one of the 19th Century cavalry swords such as the Civil War M1860....this was done during WW2 to offset the shortage of fighting knives.

 

Greg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leicanthrope

Once I get it in hand, which should hopefully be this week, I'll post some better photos and some specs.

 

Thanks for the help so far!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leicanthrope

(Can't seem to edit my last post to add the additional info for some reason.)

 

All the examples I'm seeing of the Patton saber have a diamond shaped cross-section beginning where the fuller ends. My knife appears to have more of a flattened oval shape to it.

 

Looking through older American blades (which is nowhere near my area of expertise, so it's likely I may have missed something), the closest blade I'm finding is a Krag bayonet:

 

http://www.gundersonmilitaria.com/bayonetkrag1903niceGmG.jpg

 

Not perfect, but I can't find an American sword that has enough metal on both sides of the fuller at the point where the fuller ends to be a solid candidate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the origin of that blade could be found watching carefully at dimensions and position of the fuller. Following Bayonetman articles it looks also like a AFH 1905 bayonet blade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leicanthrope

It seems that the fuller is a little to short to be a cut down 1905, but I've got cut down 1905 that I can compare it against.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
leicanthrope

The specs:

Blade is 5 9/16" long.

As viewed from the top 3/16" thick at the thickest point.

1/4" from the back of the blade to the beginning of the fuller.

Fuller is 5/16" wide.

From fuller to edge is approx 3/8".

 

It seems to be a hair wider, and a little thicker than the M1905E1 bayonet I have to compare it against. Quite a bit shorter. Also, it doesn't fit into the M8 scabbard that the M1905E1 slides right into.

 

Does that help with the assessment / identification at all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...