leicanthrope Posted May 9, 2007 Share #1 Posted May 9, 2007 Does anyone know what's going on here? It looks like the handle and guard of a M3 trench knife, but the blade looks more like the cut down blade of an M1905E1 bayonet with a slightly shorter fuller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted May 9, 2007 Share #2 Posted May 9, 2007 Yes, someone had fun in recovering guard and handle of an M3, possibly with broken blade, and put this stuff on an absed bayonet blade. This guy forgot to keep the leather washers in the proper order and did a messed handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted May 9, 2007 Thanks! For $20, it'll work well enough for reenacting. I don't have it in hand yet, so it might be possible to reorder the washers. What's "absed"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted May 9, 2007 Share #4 Posted May 9, 2007 It was "abused" but the "u" didn't come out the keyboard. P.S. Replace that repro M6 leather scabbard with an original M8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted May 10, 2007 It was "abused" but the "u" didn't come out the keyboard.P.S. Replace that repro M6 leather scabbard with an original M8. Already covered in that department. How bad is that M6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted May 10, 2007 Share #6 Posted May 10, 2007 It's a modern replica and not among the best ones. There are no throat staples and markings and throat is not squared. Look at: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=1679 and you'll appreciate the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibi Posted May 12, 2007 Share #7 Posted May 12, 2007 I think what you have was built from a portion of the blade from a M1912 saber. Years ago one of the mail order military goods dealers (I think P&S Sales) was selling "trench" knives that were made from cut up blades from the "Patton" saber. It appeared that one saber blade made three knives. The handles on those knives were wood or at least appeared to be wood in the catalog. I never ordered one, and now wish I had ordered a dozen. The blade on the knife you show appears to have been finished bright, as were the M1912 saber blades, rather than parkerized and then polished. The curved upper edge of the blade also suggests that the blade came from a M1912. I think this blade was made from the center of the original blade. The knives in the catalog made from the pointy end of the blade were simply the original point of the blade. The knives made from the hilt end of the blade retained the portion of the blade with the markings. The center part of the saber required the most work because the blade had to be reduced to make the handle portion and the blade ground to a point. I think it is likely this was done during WWII and that yours was either one of the blades remanufactured as above and the wood handle replaced with the handle of an M3 or independently done by someone that wanted a trench knife. The blades if the M1912 sabers were made from very good quality steel. It could be that whoever made these up made more than one and armed his buddies. IMO this is an item that it would be interesting to know the history. I vaguely recall that the cut down Patton sabers are shown in one of Cole's books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted May 12, 2007 Share #8 Posted May 12, 2007 I think what you have was built from a portion of the blade from a M1912 saber. Years ago one of the mail order military goods dealers (I think P&S Sales) was selling "trench" knives that were made from cut up blades from the "Patton" saber. It appeared that one saber blade made three knives. The handles on those knives were wood or at least appeared to be wood in the catalog. I never ordered one, and now wish I had ordered a dozen. The blade on the knife you show appears to have been finished bright, as were the M1912 saber blades, rather than parkerized and then polished. The curved upper edge of the blade also suggests that the blade came from a M1912. I think this blade was made from the center of the original blade. The knives in the catalog made from the pointy end of the blade were simply the original point of the blade. The knives made from the hilt end of the blade retained the portion of the blade with the markings. The center part of the saber required the most work because the blade had to be reduced to make the handle portion and the blade ground to a point. I think it is likely this was done during WWII and that yours was either one of the blades remanufactured as above and the wood handle replaced with the handle of an M3 or independently done by someone that wanted a trench knife. The blades if the M1912 sabers were made from very good quality steel. It could be that whoever made these up made more than one and armed his buddies. IMO this is an item that it would be interesting to know the history. I vaguely recall that the cut down Patton sabers are shown in one of Cole's books. Yep...I believe you're on the right track with that theory rather than it being an M3 trench knife blade. I have a WW2 knife made out of a cut up "Patton" sabre with a leather wrapped handle and it's similar to what's shown in the pic. But the blade is much narrower. My guess is it's a sword blade but not a "Patton", possibly one of the 19th Century cavalry swords such as the Civil War M1860....this was done during WW2 to offset the shortage of fighting knives. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted May 13, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted May 13, 2007 Once I get it in hand, which should hopefully be this week, I'll post some better photos and some specs. Thanks for the help so far!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted May 13, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted May 13, 2007 (Can't seem to edit my last post to add the additional info for some reason.) All the examples I'm seeing of the Patton saber have a diamond shaped cross-section beginning where the fuller ends. My knife appears to have more of a flattened oval shape to it. Looking through older American blades (which is nowhere near my area of expertise, so it's likely I may have missed something), the closest blade I'm finding is a Krag bayonet: http://www.gundersonmilitaria.com/bayonetkrag1903niceGmG.jpg Not perfect, but I can't find an American sword that has enough metal on both sides of the fuller at the point where the fuller ends to be a solid candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted May 13, 2007 Share #11 Posted May 13, 2007 I think the origin of that blade could be found watching carefully at dimensions and position of the fuller. Following Bayonetman articles it looks also like a AFH 1905 bayonet blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted May 13, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted May 13, 2007 It seems that the fuller is a little to short to be a cut down 1905, but I've got cut down 1905 that I can compare it against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted June 10, 2007 Finally got the knife: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted June 10, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted June 10, 2007 The specs: Blade is 5 9/16" long. As viewed from the top 3/16" thick at the thickest point. 1/4" from the back of the blade to the beginning of the fuller. Fuller is 5/16" wide. From fuller to edge is approx 3/8". It seems to be a hair wider, and a little thicker than the M1905E1 bayonet I have to compare it against. Quite a bit shorter. Also, it doesn't fit into the M8 scabbard that the M1905E1 slides right into. Does that help with the assessment / identification at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanthrope Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted July 18, 2007 For reference, I just saw another similar knife on an online auction site: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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