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Fantasy, Repro, & Counterfeit EGA Reference Thread


cbuehler
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teufelhunde.ret

Hello John, I am inclined to think your already in doubt about the originality of these... yes they are in fact counterfeits, fakes, or repro's... whichever your inclined to call them. These are modeled (copied) from the variety most EGA collectors call the Army/Navy Store variety. The front is somewhat convincing in its appearance, however, the reverse is the key... there were no pinback styles (that we know of today) made. Not to say that someday one may appear but highly doubtful some 90 years latter.

 

This particular gem first made its appearance on ebay some 18-24 months ago as part of a "discovery". Reportedly several dozen were found within an old coffee can in someone's celler... seem to recall Pa. They sold rapidly at first but the word got out as quickly. Now you see them being resold occasionally on ebay by the unwitting buyers and others who very well know what they are. 

 

Look here for more info on the real deal: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=8096

 

s/f Darrell

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Yep, Darrell is 100% correct. This .... has been peddling this .... for a couple of years. I told him straight-out when they first appeared on ebay. I believe another collector has also. I've been blocked from buying from his auctions... boo hoo :lol: , or should I say pooh pooh :lol: Haven't these disks been discussed previously on this Forum? Send them back if you can.

 

S/F,

 

Chuck

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Guys,

Thank you for the information, what brought my query up was already reading the link tuefelhunde posted and comparing my disks to what I saw. Are you saying that there where no French Made Pin Back EGA"s as I have a French made pin back US Disc and have seen other Doughboy Pinback Disks attributed to French manufacture. I would assume that the first one acquired by the Marines after FDR's visit would possibly be pin back as well. Am I (OTF) Out There Flapping? 

Thank you for your time and feedback in advance. :rolleyes:

Regards

John

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teufelhunde.ret

John, one should look back to older collections that have been in the hands of dedicated long term collectors like our own "Bobgee" for the clues. Those grouping being directly out of the hands of the vets - and into the collectors long term holdings for decades. As such, nothing like these has ever shown up. Further, one needs to look at the photographic holdings of dedicated period collectors, again - nothing of the sort has ever been seen. And finally the uniform regulations of the period can in no way be considered as ambiguous on the matter, the disc's that are shown and discussed in the ref. sec. thread were the only one's authorized for wear. Anything else would have been created by the vets for wear while at post war events, parades, reunions and such... as well as those folks who create these fakes, repro's and copies, to take your hard earned bucks. s/f Darrell

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Hi Darrell,

Thank you again for taking the time to re explain this to me, I am going to read the threads all over again so that the information becomes part of my brain back on what is real and false in the reals of WWI EGA's. Again thank you for your time. 

V/R

John

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  • 4 weeks later...
Well, poo! For some reason the rest of the pics are too large to load up! Mods, feel free to delete this thread.

Semper Fi!

Marc

 

Make your photos no more than 600 to 700 pixels in the largest dimension and save them as JPEG at medium quality. Here's your photo cropped and resized. It is less than 40K: the original is 140K.

 

reprobird.jpg

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I watched this for a week thinking it was a repop until this evening when I noticed the catch. It went a bit high. Something we all might kick ourselves over. Compared to what officer emblems bring from the 20s and 30s, this was a steal if original...

USMC_Old_Emblem_Front.jpg

USMC_Old_Emblem_Back.jpg

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teufelhunde.ret

Honesty - I believe these to be an early "fantasy piece", perhaps 50-75 years old? Since Nov 1868 our emblem has been referred to as the Eagle, Globe and Anchor" and while we've seen allot of variation in numbers, simply nothing of this venue has been seen in period groups. My believe is this gem was created to fool people into thinking it was an Officer's Fatigue Cap Ornament which was placed over the top of a Gold Bullion cloth Anchor. Apparently the only known sample (which only remotely looks like this) is in the hands of the M.C. Museum - which came from the memorabilia of B. Gen. Henry Cochrane.

s/f Darrell

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Honesty - I believe these to be an early "fantasy piece", perhaps 50-75 years old? Since Nov 1868 our emblem has been referred to as the Eagle, Globe and Anchor" and while we've seen allot of variation in numbers, simply nothing of this venue has been seen in period groups. My believe is this gem was created to fool people into thinking it was an Officer's Fatigue Cap Ornament which was placed over the top of a Gold Bullion cloth Anchor. Apparently the only known sample (which only remotely looks like this) is in the hands of the M.C. Museum - which came from the memorabilia of B. Gen. Henry Cochrane.

s/f Darrell

 

 

What did the officers wear in the first days of EGA's? We have nothing in our EGA reference section and I can find nothing through a Google search.

 

My question would be: why would anyone have reason to fool someone else in regards to EGA's 50 to 75 years ago? Based on the workmanship of that piece, it looks like it would have been cheaper back then to get an original old EGA than to have that made up. It certainly is an interesting piece and even if it is not the "real thing" it still has a lot of value as a fantasy piece, if that's indeed what it is. I for one could see something like this being used on an officer's epaulets with a bullion eagle and anchor: certainly senior officers in the 19th century (and even into the 20th as judged by some of the WWII generals) had a lot of leeway as to decorating their uniforms.

 

This piece does point up the gap in early EGA knowledge.

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teufelhunde.ret
What did the officers wear in the first days of EGA's? We have nothing in our EGA reference section and I can find nothing through a Google search.

This piece does point up the gap in early EGA knowledge.

 

Actually the early years are well documented through the TM published by the Museums Division. It is available here in PDF for downloading and or reading. Although not well laid out and some gaps exist, it does document the early years satisfactory. Look under the year 1971 for title.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/HD/General/Publications.htm#2001

 

As for the piece above... it only marginally looks like a fatigue cap emblem and undress cap ornament. It creator made these simply to fool and or deceive. Here is a photo from the TM... in hands of the M.C. Museum - which came from Brig. Gen. Henry Cochrane. In 1877 a true one piece EGA for the Officers dress coats of the period was adopted. s/f Darrell

 

fatgue_cap_ornament.jpg

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Actually the early years are well documented through the TM published by the Museums Division. It is available here in PDF for downloading and or reading. Although not well laid out and some gaps exist, it does document the early years satisfactory. Look under the year 1971 for title.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/HD/General/Publications.htm#2001

 

Thanks! I never knew that booklet was available online. We probably should use images from that to fill in the gaps in our EGA reference area.

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teufelhunde.ret

And yet another fantasy emblem from our favorite junk creators over at "usnusa" - "a fool and his monies are soon parted". It already has one bid 

 

FANTASY_USAUSN.jpg
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  • 2 weeks later...
teufelhunde.ret
And yet another fantasy emblem from our favorite junk creators over at "usnusa" - "a fool and his monies are soon parted". It already has one bid thumbdown.gif

 

Ops... almost forgot about the final bid. Someone paid $352 @ final bid for this work of fantasy :blink:

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  • 4 weeks later...
usmcaviator

I normally don't do this, or feel the need to police the hobby, but I've had it with these "China Marine" pieces. I sent the following e-mail to the seller, with whom I have done much business with (name has been omitted).

 

XXX,

FYI, this EGA is a known reproduction. This is either one of the ones recently sold on E-bay or a new one. A few have been circulating on E-bay and east coast auctions recently. You may want to make an addition to the post.

Mike

 

We will see if anything changes.

Mike

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usmcaviator

Response from the seller...

Dear Mike, Thank you for your email. I respect your opinion and you definitely know more about EGAs that I do. I go to a lot of gunshows and militaria shows on the east coast and I have never seen one of these before. The fur hat, ribbons and other uniforms in the lot looked authentic, albeit moth-eaten. I have never seen one of these on Ebay before and I look for EGAs all the time. Still, I cannot rule out the possibility that I have been scammed (that happened often when I was collecting Nazi medals and badges). I do not want to pass on bogus material. I will do some research and will make an addition to my Ebay description. By the way, I showed it to some collectors at the Springfield (Massachusetts) gun show last month and nobody indicated that they were bogus.

In any event, Thanks again for taking the time to bring this matter to my attention.

 

usmcaviator sends.....

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teufelhunde.ret

An "enlighten answer"? Mike, we both know these gems have been floating around the East Coast for at least five years I'm aware of... and the last place I would ever ask for qualified opinions would be a "gun show". The seller simply needs to pull the auction and chalk it up to experience!

s/f Darrell

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  • 7 months later...
Schnicklfritz

I wanted to see what people thought of the back of this 20's era EGA? Notice the weird hatching to the back. Never have seen something like this. Repro? If so, it's a good one! Sorry for the poor photos!

post-115-1258854018.jpg

post-115-1258854025.jpg

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Schnicklfritz

Now that I look at it more, I believe this is a cast repro. Note the area designated by the red arrows. Casting flash that didn't get finished. The back hatching could be from casting also. The area designated by the red "A" is where I believe the injection point was....

post-115-1258854554.jpg

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