Fantasy, Repro, & Counterfeit EGA Reference Thread

[warguy]

I might concede to the term "old fake" but I guess in my book if it was never made during the period it was supposedly worn, well, it is a fake. Just my opinion I guess.

[cutiger83]

I understand that this is not original. However a restrike is an officially produced or sanctioned later striking of an original item, but the word is often used euphemistically to describe fakes and other illegal items.

 

My question is were Stokes/Bannerman restrikes officially produced for collectors? If so, they would not be considered fakes but rather restrikes. Correct? Exactly what were these Stokes/Bannerman restrikes that are so often mentioned?

[Thor996]

I understand that this is not original. However a restrike is an officially produced or sanctioned later striking of an original item, but the word is often used euphemistically to describe fakes and other illegal items.

 

My question is were Stokes/Bannerman restrikes officially produced for collectors? If so, they would not be considered fakes but rather restrikes. Correct? Exactly what were these Stokes/Bannerman restrikes that are so often mentioned?

 

 

I found this link-maybe this helps Kat?

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/47194-stokes-kirk-m1892-egas/?hl=%2Bbannerman+%2Brestrikes&do=findComment&comment=362175

[cutiger83]

 

 

I found this link-maybe this helps Kat?

 

 

 

Thanks. that does help. Looks like there is not a consensus about these Bannerman restrikes.

 

...Kat

[warguy]

I understand the point, and the thread attached speaks specifically to the nickel prong backed ega that is so prevalent. The original poster here asked real or fake hence my reply. I see what Bannermans was doing as different than say the situation involving rim numbered issued campaign medals vs. a later 1950's un-numbered thick planchette replacements. In that case, I believe a Government sanctioned medal was produced for issue to those who had previously received it as a replacement. I don't think anyone knows what Bannermans was doing in producing insignia after the changes in regulations when it was obsolete. They were a large commercial firm of course selling militaria, mainly surplus to the public. They went to great lengths to sometimes re-purpose stuff, like turning sword handles into candlesticks, and sometimes making up wood plaques with insignia on display. Just like any large businesses today, I think they were doing their best to make a buck, and with the Corps being so small at that time perhaps they decided to fill a demand with a "re-strike".

 

I guess collectors do collect "re-strikes", be it a Bannerman's or un-numbered campaign medal. For me personally though, a re strike made up by a commercial retailer after a change in regulations and not intended for issue and wear starts to come close to an "old fake". Once again like I said before that is just my two cents. One thing we can all agree on is re strike or fake, those pieces do not command near the dollar amount as the original made and issued for wear during the time intended. I think that was probably the original intention of the question in this thread. Take the nickel plated ega from the thread referenced above. Today sellers are having a hard time selling those Bannerman prong back ega's in the $35 dollar range, where the original period loop backs if you can find one still command about $125. If a collector wants to collect old fakes and feels better calling them re strikes instead, all the power to them I suppose, but in the case of Bannerman.s produced ega's and spike helmet eagles, those lines are pretty blurry.

[cutiger83]

Warguy,

 

I do see and understand your point. . I was just trying to understand more about these Stokes/Bannerman restrikes that I keep seeing mentioned. I was curious who was this company and what exactly were they making.

 

While both are not original, I have also seen a difference of opinion when it comes to something being called a fake and a restrike. To me, a fake is something that is produced to scam someone with a forgery. Where a restrike is something made at a later date that was not meant to scam people but made more as a reproduction.

 

 

. ...Kat

[sgtdorango]

Ive always though of "restrike" as using an original die to restrike a medal or insignia at a later date but thats just my thoughts im not a medal or insignia collector...i would consider these bannerman egas an old reproduction...still cool and collectible for what they are...mike

[warguy]

To be clear, I sure appreciate the discussion and glad to be a part of it. It just feels a little like political correctness so no offense is taken by some who collect "restrikes". For me, I am reminded of the Victorian era suit of armor. Collectible yes, but not as collectible as the 16th century real thing. I suppose all of the modern reproduced fakes being sold on ebay by Gatorgirl and others will in 100 years from now be collectible in their own right. I suppose then we will have silly terms like "Antique Gatorgirl reproduction of an old Bannerman's restrike". Just seems a little silly. I do appreciate though those wanting to know more about what Bannerman's was doing with these restrikes 100 years ago.

[cutiger83]

I don’t see this at all as political correctness. This is just trying to understand the meaning of both words. While both fakes and restrikes are not original, to me they have two different meanings.

 

When Bannerman sold these, were they sold as originals or restrikes? I honestly don’t know the history of Bannerman which is why I am asking.

 

As Mike said, I believe a restrike is using an original die to restrike a medal or insignia at a later date. If items were sold as restrikes and not originals but people today are trying to sell them as originals, then to me, the current seller is a liar but the item itself is a restrike. Now if a seller tried to make something himself and sell it as original, then it would be a fake because the seller is lying about how it was made.

 

EDIT: This is an interesting and civil debate. I hope others will weigh in too.

[Thor996]

I would consider a re-strike done years after the original was made to be the same as a repro or fake and would not want in my collection unless it was a 'space filler' and I would make sure it was defaced so that when I pass or its passed along there is no confusion. JMHO

[SgtMaddoxUSMC]

As far as I know, the Bannerman strikes were made from different molds than the originals which is what makes them fairly easy to distinguish. It's not like Studley strikes on medals that used the original dies but were sold as replacements. Bannerman sold their version of military goods that were not actually issue to anyone who ordered through their catalog (like how many tactical clothing manufacturers sell MARPAT style clothes, but not official issue). They also sold a lot of actual surplus items including captured weapons from military campaigns. The truth is 99.9% of these pieces popping up on ebay are not authentic issue military used insignia but uninformed potential buyers are led to believe that they are. In fact you can buy the same exact pieces new at http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=222 the only difference is the ones on ebay have been antiqued to look older. Bannerman pieces are still cool but they are not worth nearly as much as many of them get through deceptive means.

[Brig]

Bannermans, it is my understanding, acquired many original dies. I do not believe their full dress helmet emblem dies were ever original

 

There is a lot of debate on what to call Bannermans, since the definition of fake, repro, restrike, etc vary from collector to collector. Personally, I just see Bannerman stock as a PITA. I have a riker of them for representative pieces, but it hangs in the hall and not the moto room, and I only have them because they were mixed into lots and collections I've bought. I'd never pay more than a few bucks for a Bannerman.

[Brig]

Here is a link that compares 3 of the accepted original variants of this emblem that reside in my collection, none are Bannerman, all original. There are several more variants.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/212542-enlisted-full-dress-helmet-ega-variants/

[Schnicklfritz]

Don't know if this has been discussed before or not, but I believe this is a newer fake EGA collar disc made in the "French" style. The details on the front just don't look correct to me. The rear post is missing a detail too. What do ya'll think?

[268th C.A.]

I am an amateur, but it looks repro to me....others chime in. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[normaninvasion]

While I am not savy regarding the "French Style". It looks like a repro to me, lacking in detail on the front, no signs of wear or age. Missing lower post construction detail, aleast for US made.

[55rocker52]

OK, you EGA guys, here is another one that I recently acquired, and again, is one that I have never found before. Is it from the 1880's, or 1980's? Is it a cap insignia or a collar insignia? When is that EGA book due?

Thanks,

Kent

[Brig]

One of the most highly reproduced items out there, appears to be the usual Bannerman's junk

 

Not sure the Marine Corps Museum even has an original, they're rarer than hen's teeth and I'm not aware of any real ones in private collections, but I haven't seen everyone's collection

[55rocker52]

Well thanks Brig. You always seem to know. I didn't pay much for it, and thought that it might be, but took a chance anyway.

Thanks,

Kent

[Brig]

Been awhile since we've seen one of these pieces of crap...whoever is making them tried to go with loops this time, and a double stamped London. Sadly, already has a bid at 40 bucks on eBay

[Brig]

rear

[bobgee]

What a P.O.S. Bobgee

[Brig]

listed as a reproduction...but still yuck...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1892-1904-Marine-Corps-Variation-Officers-EGA-Eagle-Globe-Anchor-Cap-Screw-Back-/301951882101?hash=item464dbc1375:g:eU4AAOSwPv9XL65a

 

[Schnicklfritz]

These just popped up on Ebay. Same kinda backs on a repro collar disc.

[Brig]

yuck