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Fantasy, Repro, & Counterfeit EGA Reference Thread


cbuehler
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Mike,

 

I almost contacted this seller to ask if he wouldn't mind pulling that emblem off the case and taking some reverse shots of it, but knew the binoculars would destroy any chances of getting any kind of deal on the emblem, so didn't bother. I know it's definitely not the 1914-22 or WWI emblem he stated, but because there were so many odd-ball private purchase emblems being cranked out during the 1930's through WWII, I thought it might fall into that category. It shows some remarkable similarities to a couple of emblems we are all familiar with, including this odd bird I'm posting. I have owned this one since almost day one of collecting emblems, so pretty close to 26-27 years now. I always wondered about mine and possible maker, and even originality, until, I believe, Jeremiah found an identical bird to mine, only with the MeyerMetal logo hallmark. With the exception of the wings patterns and the anchor stock being attached to the wing, I don't see many differences in the two. Some similarities I have noticed on mine and the auction emblem are the bird's heads and body in general, including the large "flapper" feet. The auction emblem also has the double latitude lines in both northern and southern hemispheres and what appear to be that flatter 3/4 only half globe instead of the earlier full half globe. Both also have the much wider squarish anchor stocks you usually don't see on emblems. Another emblem that comes to mind that has similarities to these two is the odd-ball ugly "bat bird" we discussed last month. The "bat bird" emblem also has the extra wide anchor stock identical to the auction emblem and also the double latitude lines.

 

I haven't really seen any of these auction emblems being sold as definite reproductions or outright fakes yet, so I was wondering if you have? Matter of fact, I haven't even seen this emblem yet, period, so thought it might be worth some consideration as a possible original. With the pure amount of fantasy fakes hitting the market nowadays, it's probably not a good idea to even bother with oddballs, but it's always worth hoping.

 

Gary

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Guess I should have been more specific. The EGA on the bino case is not only a fake, but it is a known horrible fake by one of the guys popping these out. If you want his name PM me. He goes under National Capital Historical Sales (nchs on e-bay). Here are his pics of both the service and dress EGA from his E-bay store. He does sell them as reproductions, to his credit. But they are no marked as such. You can get all you want for $30 each. Dont everyone get one at the same time, or else he may start making more!

Mike
(BROKEN LINKS REMOVED)

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Guess I should have been more specific. The EGA on the bino case is not only a fake, but it is a known horrible fake by one of the guys popping these out. If you want his name PM me. He goes under National Capital Historical Sales (nchs on e-bay).

 

I saw some of his stuff at a show and he seemed quite proud of them: but I thought they looked terrible.

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craig_pickrall

When did the USMC change over to the black bino case? I thought it was in the 50's. The binos look like good WW2 issue. I would think about $75 or so.

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Mike - I periodically check his auctions to see what he's casting in any given week. Yep! Some horrible cast junk he makes, but I am now wondering if he created this design himself or copied and cast it from an original emblem. We've all seen some fairly odd original emblems come along and that bino case EGA had me fooled as to thinking it looked like a nicely stamped emblem. This fellow must have some pretty fair knowledge of EGA's to add the double latitude lines in his castings, because as far as I know, they show up very rarely.

 

I'll certainly pay more attention to his auctions.

 

Gary

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When I saw his stuff in person it looked to me as though he'd used original EGA's to make the molds: the wear, aging and finish don't look anything at all like the real thing. Did you ever see a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy....etc.? One write calls that "Downcycling" and notes that "With every successive copy, the quality deteriorates." Making a cast of an original generally requires you to go through a couple of generations before you get the final copy. Look at this one and see how unlike the real thing it is: http://cgi.ebay.com/USMC-WWI-EM-Dress-cove...emZ260070864413

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usmc-collector

If you referencing the bino case from this auction it is not black, but very dark brown cordovan color, about year ago, lot of these ww2 unisued cases hit market, these should become from 1943 marked crates, these were offered on ebay and by some vendors, the price ranged between 30-100usd, depending on knowledge of seller to identify this case as usmc even, the case correctly have no usmc stamp or marking

 

I bought one and it is real nice ww2 USMC example

 

as for auction, I do not like it thumbdown.gif my opinion is that someone wanted to gain more money by creating this group, the condition of case is not matching the condition and wear of the binoculars, as well this ega "upgrade"

 

many fakers today try to increase the price of nice unmarked USMC original items by adding usmc marking or ega stencil, and etc., as we all know many USMC ww2 gear and items has no markings, but what I really hate that these stupi.... uneducated sellers stamp and mark the gear with fantasy USMC marking, thus destroying the value of item to zero, I have seen on ebay many nice pouches, belts, destroyed by this "upgrade", unfortunatelly still there is maket for such crap, and some people will pay high money for such fantasy items

 

JAROSLAV

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Greg Robinson

I have seen legit examples of USMC gear with emblems attached. I own a Korean War vintage pistol belt that has a collar size emblem mounted in one of the grommets near the fastener. It looked "right" and sold cheap on ebay a few years ago. And the seller didn't make a big deal of the emblem being there.

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I agree completely with many of the repeat castings losing all detail to the point they really start looking funky. Wouldn't fool many people in the 3rd, 4th or 5th generation of using the same mold, but the emblem on the case looks like a nicely stamped piece and had me fooled. Could be one of his 1st generation fakes? I really thought about contacting the seller for reverse shots. That's the tell-all with many of these odd ball emblems, either stamped or cast. As Mike put it, most likely a $1 fake!

 

JAROSLAV - Howdy again! As Greg stated, it's well known and photo documented that Marines have always added metal EGA's to their gear and equipment. In the case of this auction, it's obvious that this EGA was added to inhance value. I've owned more than several sets of WWII USMC binoculars and cases over the years and what I do know is, all WWII binoulars made for USMC were marked with a 4-digit date below the makers marks and power stats. I've never seen any WWII USMC bino cases made in leather either. They have always been rubberized. The auction binos were most likely made in either the 1950's or 1960's. Whether the leather case is original to the binos is doubtful and I'm guessing it's also from the 1950's or 1960's. As you stated, the surplus stores here were absolutely flooded with green, beige, brown and black leather bino cases throughout most of the 1970's, 1980's and into the 1990's, but they all came from Army Depots, not USMC. My guess is that all three pieces in this auction came together as a whole for the auction. It was the EGA I was basically interested in, but knew the cased binos would make it too expensive to pursue, so didn't bother to ask or investigate further on the emblem.

 

Gary

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I also bought one of these binoc cases for 6 x 30 size glasses from an optics dealer in Philadelphia last year on eBay. The case is in mint condition and is a dark cordovan in color. The price was a very reasonable $32.00 plus shipping. The dealer provided some pictures of the crate my case came from which I will attach below for everybody's edification. It would appear that at least the 6 x 30 binocs furnished by the Marines did make use of leather cases during WWII. The larger size 7 x 50 field glasses used by the USMC seemed to have been issued with rubber cases marked to Hood Rubber Co. if memory serves.

 

Also, I have three pairs of USMC marked 6 x 30's from different makers that I strongly believe to be of WWII usage that are NOT dated. The same applies to three pairs shown in GRUNT GEAR. All the Marine 7 x 50's that I remember had dates, I think.

 

What I bought:

 

The crate it came in:

 

And some more:

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usmc-collector

Bagman,

thanks for provided information nice prove that these binocular cases made of dark brown cordovan leather are of USMC origin

 

I purchased the case from same ebay seller last year for this very reasonable price $32.00. But now these are sold for 60usd or more (e.g. WPG vendor and etc.)

 

JAROSLAV

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Gary,

 

I had chocked it up as fake just by the fact that this guy was selling it. I have talked with him before at the shows and he always defends selling "fillers" for those who can not afford real ones. The ones he peddles, more often than not, resemble nothing ever made however (fantasy). I think he does this on purpose, as I think he is very capable (or the person he uses to make these is capable) of making them much better. He walks a thin line, but has always represented them as "reproductions". It could very well be that the copy we have been discussing was made from a "real" version of EGA that actually does exist, but I doubt it in this case. For now, until one comes my way via a good source, I am highly supecting them as fantasy.

 

Mike

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I came across many of the same wooden crates of goodies while I was helping close down an auto and military surplus and salvage yard in Pueblo, CO in 1999, 2000 and 2001. Because all of this surplus military came from the Pueblo Army Ordnance Depot after WWII, Korea and Vietnam, it was pretty hard to get exact dates on the stuff, unless you broke the cases open. It's simply not true that the Marine Corps was the only branch to use cordovan brown bino cases, because as I already mentioned, beige, dark brown, dyed green and black cases for both 6x and 7x were found. It's just another case of a couple of people starting the rumor that cordovan brown was used by USMC only and it snowballs out of control until all cordovan brown cases are USMC. If the dealer in Philly, or better yet, Morgantown is a guy by the name of John Sieck, you might ask him if he acquired an enormous quantity of the brown cases from Big 4 Auto Salvage in Pueblo, CO. He was one of the people from "back east in PA" that was trying to buy the salvage business from the family who owned it. I do know that during the same period, I was also selling cases, prisms, lenses, eyepieces, covers and just about anything that would make a set of binoculars, but it was all Army, including the cordovan brown cases. I still have a pretty good sized storage shed full of much of the surplus I acquired back then and I'll look to see if I have any of the brown cases for both 6x and 7x left. For all of your worthless surplus needs, such as USAAF incendiary bomb cluster cables never used in the fire bombing of Japan, KW dated practice rifle grenades, cast iron 75mm and 175 AA cannon shells, many thousands upon thousands of watch and optic parts, canvas tool rolls, etc.., please contact me for super deals! :)

 

You could certainly be right about USMC using leather cases for smaller binos during WWII, but as I stated, the only cases I have seen and owned from WWII USMC were rubberized, for both 6x and 7x. I wasn't really being picky when I was collecting USMC field equipment and deuce gear, the dated binos and rubberized cases were the only way I found them.

 

Gary

 

A few snapshots of what we were dealing with while closing down Big 4. Towards the end, the owners would let buyers or pickers go out into the four different yards to look for specialty items, such as Harley parts, half-track and jeep parts. Many of the cases of canvas and leather surplus were left open and the weather destroyed much, but it was actually a nice treasure hunt every time the buyers left the crates ripped open. This was only one yard of four. And, a few snapshots of the interior of the downtown store.

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Wait...I'm not done yet! And drats, it's was all Army surplus.

 

The Big 4 Store. Four floors of nothing but surplus auto and military.

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Mike,

 

The one on the case had me fooled. From what I've been told about this NCHS seller, he isn't making or having them made to deceive anyone. Always hopeful that he'll start marking them as repops, especially if they get better in design and quality. It's always that 2nd or 3rd guy that figures they'll pull a fast one. It's good to know what's out there. Thanks for the information on these.

 

Gary

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all, here is my only pair of "Goony Birds". I found these a while ago, and I really like them. To me they look original, but i'd like to hear your comments and opinions.

 

I have my fingers crossed that you guys don't tell me they are genuine Pakistani issue, made last month.

 

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Dennis

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Here is a larger Photo. Please bear with me and these photos, until I get the hang of posting pics.

 

 

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teufelhunde.ret
Here is a bigger image of the back.

Goonies2.jpg

 

Hi Dennis, yes you have a neat set of repro's there. I could sit here for the next minutes telling you about whats wrong with the thin shell, elongated pin & hook feature, lack of details and overall burnished appearance. But if you will go to any of these posts, you will be on the EGA repro thread and in 15 minutes you will learn more than you might really expect to know when your done. s/f Darrell

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...ost&p=31654

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...ost&p=46029

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...ost&p=46035

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