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Cupfire, what is it ?


davekj

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post-1733-1250945746.jpgA friend found a box in his dads stuff with 4 rounds of ammo in it and asked me about them . The box was not for the ammo so no help there . It was labeled LIVE AMMO MILITARY in his dads wrighting . The rounds look to be about 9mm and 28mm long . with the projectile inside the case . there is what apears to be a wax sealing up the opening . and it is crimped 11mm from the mouth . Another wierd thing is the primer end is cocaved about 4mm . and the jacket is made of copper . There are no markings on these rounds . Any help would be great !!!

I Thank you !!!

Dave

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There defiently blank practice rounds. Hinse the wax in the neck. Not sure on cal, I assume .45. What is the dia. of the casing? That will help.

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There defiently blank practice rounds. Hinse the wax in the neck. Not sure on cal, I assume .45. What is the dia. of the casing? That will help.

 

They are close to 9mm X 28mm the outside of the case is about 10.5 mm . There is a bullet in the case the wax is just around the edge .

Dave

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They are not a blank or any other pistol or rifle cartridge. There is no extraction rim or groove in the base. The concave base prohibits the use as a primer detonated round by a firing pin, so they are not a stand alone cartridge. The concave base looks much like the base of a tracer, the material at the top may be the tracer mix and these were never insalled into the bullet, such as a fifty. The other option is that they are some kind of flare projectile.


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Could it be a primer/igniter for some type of ordinance, with the wax securing the priming compound?

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This computin' machine has got alotta buttons on it...........................where's the "ANY" key?

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Could it be a primer/igniter for some type of ordinance, with the wax securing the priming compound?

 

 

I think you have something there. Primers for artillery rounds. :think:

 

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Appears to be a cupfire. An an early ignition system for firearms that went away many years ago. The wax may be covering a bullet or it may be a blank. Could just be grunge and/or corrosion Can you radiograph it?

 

Take a look. I will take some pics of some if you want but here is a link. I have a friend with an unopened box of them.

 

http://www.municion.org/Cupfire/42Cupfire.htm

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Certainly appears to be a cupfire - loaded from the front of the cylinder and the priming is in the rim, but the hammer/firing pin hits the rim from the inside of the cup.

 

From: A Cartridge Collector's Glossary @ http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/glossary.htm

 

CUPFIRE CARTRIDGE - A front-loading rimfire cartridge used in early pistols which were designed to circumvent the Rollin White bored-through cylinder design. The fulminate was distributed around the concave base of the cartridge. Known in .28, .30 and .42 calibers. Probably made by Phoenix or American Cartridge Companies.

 

cupfire_cartridge.gif

 

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I surely learned something new today, I don't think I've ever heard of a cupfire cartridge or firearm before.

Sorry, no refunds on opinions...............have a nice day

 

This computin' machine has got alotta buttons on it...........................where's the "ANY" key?

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Certainly appears to be a cupfire - loaded from the front of the cylinder and the priming is in the rim, but the hammer/firing pin hits the rim from the inside of the cup.

 

From: A Cartridge Collector's Glossary @ http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/glossary.htm

 

CUPFIRE CARTRIDGE - A front-loading rimfire cartridge used in early pistols which were designed to circumvent the Rollin White bored-through cylinder design. The fulminate was distributed around the concave base of the cartridge. Known in .28, .30 and .42 calibers. Probably made by Phoenix or American Cartridge Companies.

 

cupfire_cartridge.gif

 

Also see: http://www.baymediapro.com/collection/cart...ails.asp?BID=54

Thank You for all the info !!!! I found out last night what they are . but not all of this info . Many thanks !!!

Dave

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Appears to be a cupfire. An an early ignition system for firearms that went away many years ago. The wax may be covering a bullet or it may be a blank. Could just be grunge and/or corrosion Can you radiograph it?

 

Take a look. I will take some pics of some if you want but here is a link. I have a friend with an unopened box of them.

 

http://www.municion.org/Cupfire/42Cupfire.htm

Thank You for the info !! The additional pictures aren't needed , But I Thank You for offering !!

Dave

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