River Patrol Posted May 3, 2007 Share #1 Posted May 3, 2007 Here's a nice 5th Marine patch, foreign-made. Any thoughts on this patch? Are there reproductions of this patch? Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted May 3, 2007 Share #2 Posted May 3, 2007 Steve- Yes, there are certainly reproductions and in my opinion, this is one of them. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted May 3, 2007 Share #3 Posted May 3, 2007 According to what I've been told in the past, this style of patch is referred to as the Stokes-Kirk made patch. It was supposed to have been made for returning 5th Brigade Marines although it was never "issued" and I've never seen one on a uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vzemke Posted May 3, 2007 Share #4 Posted May 3, 2007 Ok, I have always been a bit confused by the 5th Marine Brigade patch. I thought these guys fell under the 2nd Infantry Division (US Army) and used a version of that Division patch? So when/where did they get their own completely different patch? Vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted May 3, 2007 Share #5 Posted May 3, 2007 The patch variation pictured here is an "unofficial "variation of the 5th Brigade patch. Very different from the "Normal" 5th Brigade patch. The 5th did indeed fall under command of the 2nd Division. The 5th Brigade was pretty much used for rear area duties and combat casuality replacements for the 4th Brigade and after the armistice, some went on to Germany as Occupation troops. There was alot of hope that there would be a Marine division formed out of the 2 brigades before the war ended, but those dreams never came to fruition mainly due to political infighting between the Marines adn Army commands in the AEF and in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Pearcy Posted May 3, 2007 Share #6 Posted May 3, 2007 I agree with schnicklfritz. A while back I owned one similar to this one the only difference being it was for aviation with a "bulls-eye" for the globe. All chain- stitched on wool about 4" in diameter. A Stokes-Kirk patch made for collectors of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Patrol Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks to all for your help.....I had a feeling these were never officially worn but were "made-for the-collector" type. And I mis-labeled this as 5th regiment...should be 5th brigade. Steve I corrected the topic title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted May 3, 2007 Share #8 Posted May 3, 2007 The patch variation pictured here is an "unofficial "variation of the 5th Brigade patch. Very different from the "Normal" 5th Brigade patch. The 5th did indeed fall under command of the 2nd Division. The 5th Brigade was pretty much used for rear area duties and combat casuality replacements for the 4th Brigade and after the armistice, some went on to Germany as Occupation troops. There was alot of hope that there would be a Marine division formed out of the 2 brigades before the war ended, but those dreams never came to fruition mainly due to political infighting between the Marines adn Army commands in the AEF and in the US. By way of keeping the record straight I offer the following quote from "The United States Marine Corps in the World War" by Maj. Edwin N. McClellan USMC - 1920: "The units of the Fifth Brigade were never together as a brigade in France or at any time an element of a division, and for that reason its commanding general was assigned additional duties in the American Expeditionary Forces." They were never part of the 2nd U.S. Infantry Divison in which the Fourth Brigade of Marines, consisting of the 5th & 6th Regiments and the 6th MG Bn, formed half of the division's infantry forces, and which was eventually commanded by USMC MajGen John a. Lejeune. The 5th Brigade which arrived in France in Sept 1918, and was considered to be better trained than many of the National Army and National Guard units arriving was not destined to see combat. General Pershing apparently felt that the Marines had covered themselves in enough glory! Regarding the patch, I personally don't like it as a contemporay piece. It's not like any other genuine 5th Brigade patch I have seen or owned. BUT I'm not an expert on patches. Semper Fi!.......Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM Posted May 4, 2007 Share #9 Posted May 4, 2007 I had always been under the impression that much of 5th Bde never made it to France before the end of hostilities. That is some interesting information, Bob. Thanks! In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I thought I'd post this news article out of the Rocky Mountain News from 1991. The only known original 5th Bde patches I've ever seen were square, just like the one Maebelle is wearing on her blouse. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM Posted May 4, 2007 Share #10 Posted May 4, 2007 Here's her story...I'm not sure I believe her about having Marines salute her because she was a Corporal, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM Posted May 4, 2007 Share #11 Posted May 4, 2007 Here is one last pic of her in her 1917 issued uniform. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted May 5, 2007 Share #12 Posted May 5, 2007 I find that interesting, as according to the Marine Corps, the first female Marine was Opha Mae Johnson in 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vzemke Posted May 5, 2007 Share #13 Posted May 5, 2007 So what about the fully embroidered 5th Marine Bde patches that have the red EGA on a black circle. I have always considered these to be "patch king" made for collector copies from the 1940's that were never actaully worn by any unit at the time. Is this a correct assumption? Was the back ground supposed to be black or red, or did it depend on which unit you were with? Thanks, Vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted May 5, 2007 Share #14 Posted May 5, 2007 So what about the fully embroidered 5th Marine Bde patches that have the red EGA on a black circle. I have always considered these to be "patch king" made for collector copies from the 1940's that were never actaully worn by any unit at the time. Is this a correct assumption? Was the back ground supposed to be black or red, or did it depend on which unit you were with?Thanks, Vance Victor- Yes, those fully embroidered (like a typical WW2 patch) 5th Marine Bde patches were made for collectors by "Patch King" in the mid 40's. As far as the patch that started off this thread, I think it's a relatively recently made fake - not some post WW1 "Stokes Kirk" or "Studley"patch. Those had much better detail and design. The EGA on this patch does not reflect that. I see this loose embroidery style of patch listed by the fake peddlers on Ebay rather frequently. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Patrol Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted May 5, 2007 Well, I examined the patch today at a show near NYC, however I did not purchase it. Thanks for everyone's help in saving me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted May 5, 2007 Share #16 Posted May 5, 2007 I'm really glad to hear this wasn't something you already bought, Steve. What was the asking price? Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Patrol Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share #17 Posted May 5, 2007 Hi Kurt It never got that far...I was skeptical of the patch before hand. I just needed confirmation from others. Thanks again everyone! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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