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EGA Emblem Clutchbacks.........When did they start ?

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Over on the EGA reference board, and in PM's, we have had a rambling discussion about dating early period Globe and Anchor emblems. To this point, no one is certain when the use of these devices began. What has become a point of discussion are early vintage emblems, that have all the character and production similarities to the late 20's and into the 30's, that have clutchback pins. At one point another member posted a sales catalog page from the early 40's to our discussion.

 

I have added a picture of one that is in question with early production features. Was the emblems stock stored for a lenghty period and upon introduction of cluthbacks refitted as such. OR or produced as such in late 20's or 30's and as all clutchbacks do, simply wear out and replaced with newer stock???????

 

So would like to hear (and pic's) from those of you whom have early Army / Navy examples, prior to WW2, and or reference materials dating the introduction of clutchback emblems, a sincere thanks for your help. Best regards;

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The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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I don't think any one really knows for sure when the clutch back type insignia were introduced but they were defiantly around in the 1930s. There is no government spec on them, they were at the discretion of the manufacturers and they may have been patented for jewelry before they were applied to insignia, I don't know. One thing for sure, the Ballou Fasteners were patented in 1942, these are the brass clutches usually associated with the clutch back insignia. These were so cheap and effective that they became standard almost overnight. The clutch back insignia used in the 1930s used the tie tack type fasteners which were much more expensive to make. But since both are interchangable they tend to get shuffled around over the years, actually most have the post war clutches with the little cleats on them now.


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I believe your comments are pointed in the right direction. Know one is certain, at this moment, however there enough indicators they came into use during the depression era of our parents. However, we need certain and verifiable evidence of their exisitance in the 20's / 30's with period originals. I agree with your assumptions.



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Reviving this topic, we have recently identified a 1926 or later Marine Officers Service coat emblem (AKA "China Marine" - "Gooney Bird") that has clutchback posts. Hoping someone else has similar emblems of this age or earlier... Army, Navy.......?

 

Emblem from collection of "Bobgee"

clutchback_1926_officer__s.jpg

clutchback_1926_officer__s_front.jpg



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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that's probably a pretty rare emblem just because of the clutchback


-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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I have just uncovered a bit more information about these devices and when their use began. As it turns out in December 1926 Army Regulation 600-25 did provide for the use of these devices. The first clutchback fastener were then advertised by N.S. Meyer in the Army and Navy Register of November 1926.

 

Should someone have a copy, a scan would be appreaciated or is someone has a N.S. Myer catalog from this era, they may have been presented in their catalog for the first time? s/f Darrell



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Good thread Darrell. I have the same '26 pattern H&H bird in a screw post configuration. I'd guess it was available in 2 or 3 different configurations. I do have some clutches that have a patent number on them that was awarded in 1943. They are flat faced and usually sterling. Anyone else seen those?


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Actively seeking WW1 4th and 5th Brigade USMC helmets and also a named WW2 Raider green blouse.
I'd rather be a sparrow than a snail, if I could I surely would....

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I am going to try and find the earliest by using the numbers you see stamped on these gems. Spent time yesterday trying a drill down with the goggle search feature: http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search It provides PDF copies of the drawing and Patent approval letter.

 

Just ran out of ideas with the names or key word search feature. Did come across two granted to N.S. Meyer... but nothing could be found on earlier than WW2. The N.S. Meyer clutchback must be there... somewhere, likely under the inventors name. Perhaps a member will come across this thread someday and have one of their early catalogs that can provide more clues. Asked Sarge Booker for a email copy of his N.S. Meyer catalog dated 1926... nothing to be found :(

 

s/f Darrell



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Well at least one EGA mystery has been solved, the first clutchback for use with military emblems (and EGA's specific) came about with the issuing of patent number 1412481 (and a second issued at the same date: #1412480, called a Sectring Means) to Charles Mendler of California in April 1922. The device at that time was called "securing device" The question now, does anyone have a clutchback with these patent number in their collection? I know some EGA's collectors who would dearly love to match up some early pinbacks with these early clutchbacks! s/f Darrell

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The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Darrell: Well done!!!! thumbsup.gif


Always looking for items associated with the China Marines! Visit chinamarine.org

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Great research, Darrell. Places those clutchbacks on insignia much earlier than most of us suspected.

Semper Fi......Bob


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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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one mystery down, many more to go. great find thumbsup.gif


-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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I don't have examples of the patent number 1412481 clutch back, but I did find some with the slightly later patent number 1454857, which was approved on May 15, 1923. Interestingly, even though these have a later patent approval date than the example Darrell posted, the initial patent request was actually filed two months earlier on September 16, 1921. They are described as a "separable button" by the inventor, Elisha Phinney of Pawtucket, RI. Unfortunately, I don't remember on what type of insignia these originally came.

Here are two marked "PAT. NO. 1454857"

(BROKEN LINK REMOVED)

(BROKEN LINK REMOVED)


Here are three marked "PAT. MAY 15, 1923"

(BROKEN LINK REMOVED)

 

(BROKEN LINK REMOVED)

 

This one might be the oldest, as it is simply marked "PAT. APP'D FOR"

(BROKEN LINK REMOVED)

 

(BROKEN LINK REMOVED)

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Just a theory on my part, after looking at the two devices and reading the patent application... the final version makers began to use may have been a combination of both? Or perhaps a refined version of either? s/f Darrell

1412480_2.png

1412480.png



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Bringing this old topic back to life, hoping any newer members may have more photo's to add, of these pre WW2 clutchback "like" devices. Thanks!



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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Here are some that I have. I've tried not to duplicate previous examples. Thanks, Al Hirschler in Dallas.

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Here are some that I have. I've tried not to duplicate previous examples. Thanks, Al Hirschler in Dallas.

post-12790-1345039812.jpg

post-12790-1345039824.jpg


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