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Gaunt Jump wings


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your doubts are well founded.

I guess I will give up on trying too find a real set of British Jump wings..........Thanks for saving me some money..,,,,Jimmy

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Hi Jimmy,

 

Don't give up, just realise that a real jump wing is rare and truly a joy to find. I looked for 5 years before I found a real one. Just don't expect it to be cheap. You may find one tomorrow at a garage sale for a quarter and that would be fantastic, just don't expect it.

 

 

Cheers

Gary

I guess I will give up on trying too find a real set of British Jump wings..........Thanks for saving me some money..,,,,Jimmy
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Howdy,

 

If I were you and was really hot to buy an English-made jump wing, you may want to think about approaching one of the well respected and well sourced dealers. I can think of a couple right off my head (Bob Chat and Ron Burkey to name two) who are well known and respected militaria dealers, who have access to many hard to find items, and who have the knowledge and integrity to stand by what they sell.

 

You may end up spending a bit (sometimes quite a bit) more than what you may find on ebay, but you know what you get is what it is supposed to be and I am pretty sure they will stand by their items for life. I believe that in the long run you would likely save yourself a good deal of money by going this route, ESPECIALLY if you are going to try to learn by buying stuff by trial and error on ebay.

 

The other strategy is to do lots of research, gain experience, and use some patience while waiting for that treasure to show up. Eventually it will, trust me! I know that we have a number of well respected and very knowledgeable airborne collectors as members of this forum and asking questions as you have been doing is a good way to start. Still, discussions and study of items on a forum are often not enough, as you will need hands on experience to learn about the good and the bad. That is harder to gain because it takes lots of patience and time, going to shows and handling insignia. You may want to joins a society like ASMIC.

 

When I first started collecting wings, I would spend as much time as possible looking at as many wings and insignia as I could. It takes time, but does pay off.

 

Good luck

 

Patrick

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fabiobelgio

Thanks all for the precious service you give all of us, identifing fake stuff going around. May I ask to explain the elements that make you say it's a fake ? This is just not to make the same mistake next time...

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Back in the 80's a certain Airborne re-enactment group went to BB&B and had restrikes of WWII jump wings made on the original dies.............be careful.....

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Brian Dentino

Pretty extensive...and informative discussion on British made wings......http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=47535

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Brian Dentino

From the closeup of the MM on the back of these they have that rough, ill definied, cast look to me....but I am no expert on these at all.

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I recall seeing a thread on one of the forums (either this one or the WAF) that discussed JR Gaunt wings, but I can't seem to find it again.

 

This is from my best recollection from what was discussed in that thread, in general I remember the following.

 

First, it seems that there are a number of types of fakes, including crude cast wings and some sort of restrikes, either coming directly from the company or after the dies had been sold a few years ago.

 

The cast wings are "relatively" easy to tell because of the characteristics of the casting process.

 

The die stamped restrike wings are harder to tell, but it seems that even they can be distinguished from the originals.

 

Like a number of the other JR Gaunt insignia (a perfect example are the JR Gaunt-made versions of the polish flight badges that were made for those Poles who escaped to England after Poland and France fell to the Germans), the jump wings have been faked and have some common "errors" associated with the hallmarks. One trick is to use the knowledge in other fields. I know what Polish items are frequently faked and some searching on the internet for "fake polish JR Gaunt wings" may also provide some useful information.

 

1) IIRC the hallmarks on the fakes tended to be excised, but off centered, tilted or to close to the edge of the wings. I also seem to recall that the hallmarks were poorly defined and not clear. Likely due to some sort of wear or damage to the original dies.

 

2) IIRC the JR Gaunt wings should be silver plated brass or brass alloy. The fakes tend to be some sort of non-brass, silvery metal. The good wings I see have NEVER been marked sterling or silver and the ones that I have seen that are marked silver or sterling have obviously not been silver or sterling. Thus the "SILVER" hallmark is the kiss of death for me.

 

3) In general, the pins are brass, but may sometimes be of other metal.

 

4) The main tell I use to try to pick out the fakes from the originals are the shroud lines. In the original wings, each line seems to originate from the bottom of the wing and radiates out equidistance from its neighbors like the rays of the sun. In the fakes, some of the shroud lines tend to merge with each other above that center point at the bottom of the wing. It is almost like some of the shroud lines are tangled or merge at different points. That is because the fine detail gets lost in the casting process or when the original dies gets worn down.

 

So, what I tend to look for (and I will usually only buy a jump wing if it is really cheap in any case) in an English made wing is that the wing is made of silver plated brass (not a silvery pot metal), that the hallmark is relatively sharp, clear, and centered in the middle of the back of the wing (not tilted or off centered and to close to the edge), and that the shroud lines all are evenly and carefully spaced, and each individual line converges at the same point in the center of the wing.

 

In the wing in question, despite the hallmark being so mangled, look at the shroud lines. I have indicated with a couple of arrows where the shroud lines tend to converge at different levels and in clumps. I dont have a really good scan of a "good" jump wing right now, but in the example I do show, you can see that all the shroud lines converge at the same spot at the bottom.

 

To me, that is the important characteristic that the fakers have failed to overcome. I suspect that with these four or five points, you can tell most of the crapolla from the good ones.

 

Patrick

post-1519-1248552757.jpg

post-1519-1248552821.jpg

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fabiobelgio
I recall seeing a thread on one of the forums (either this one or the WAF) that discussed JR Gaunt wings, but I can't seem to find it again.

 

This is from my best recollection from what was discussed in that thread, in general I remember the following.

 

First, it seems that there are a number of types of fakes, including crude cast wings and some sort of restrikes, either coming directly from the company or after the dies had been sold a few years ago.

 

The cast wings are "relatively" easy to tell because of the characteristics of the casting process.

 

The die stamped restrike wings are harder to tell, but it seems that even they can be distinguished from the originals.

 

Like a number of the other JR Gaunt insignia (a perfect example are the JR Gaunt-made versions of the polish flight badges that were made for those Poles who escaped to England after Poland and France fell to the Germans), the jump wings have been faked and have some common "errors" associated with the hallmarks. One trick is to use the knowledge in other fields. I know what Polish items are frequently faked and some searching on the internet for "fake polish JR Gaunt wings" may also provide some useful information.

 

1) IIRC the hallmarks on the fakes tended to be excised, but off centered, tilted or to close to the edge of the wings. I also seem to recall that the hallmarks were poorly defined and not clear. Likely due to some sort of wear or damage to the original dies.

 

2) IIRC the JR Gaunt wings should be silver plated brass or brass alloy. The fakes tend to be some sort of non-brass, silvery metal. The good wings I see have NEVER been marked sterling or silver and the ones that I have seen that are marked silver or sterling have obviously not been silver or sterling. Thus the "SILVER" hallmark is the kiss of death for me.

 

3) In general, the pins are brass, but may sometimes be of other metal.

 

4) The main tell I use to try to pick out the fakes from the originals are the shroud lines. In the original wings, each line seems to originate from the bottom of the wing and radiates out equidistance from its neighbors like the rays of the sun. In the fakes, some of the shroud lines tend to merge with each other above that center point at the bottom of the wing. It is almost like some of the shroud lines are tangled or merge at different points. That is because the fine detail gets lost in the casting process or when the original dies gets worn down.

 

So, what I tend to look for (and I will usually only buy a jump wing if it is really cheap in any case) in an English made wing is that the wing is made of silver plated brass (not a silvery pot metal), that the hallmark is relatively sharp, clear, and centered in the middle of the back of the wing (not tilted or off centered and to close to the edge), and that the shroud lines all are evenly and carefully spaced, and each individual line converges at the same point in the center of the wing.

 

In the wing in question, despite the hallmark being so mangled, look at the shroud lines. I have indicated with a couple of arrows where the shroud lines tend to converge at different levels and in clumps. I dont have a really good scan of a "good" jump wing right now, but in the example I do show, you can see that all the shroud lines converge at the same spot at the bottom.

 

To me, that is the important characteristic that the fakers have failed to overcome. I suspect that with these four or five points, you can tell most of the crapolla from the good ones.

 

Patrick

Thanks Patrick,

a lot of good info to know !

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I dug out this old thread, where some of my jump wings were displayed

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...p;hl=jump+wings

 

Here is a wing that I think is possibly a JR Gaunt wing without a hallmark. Notice is it silver plated brass (most of the silver plate has been worn off) and pay special attention to the shroud lines. They all converge at the same point. IMHO, this is what you need to be looking for in an English made wing.

 

Patrick

post-1519-1248632357.jpg

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