WWI DALLAS BB&B PATTERN WING

[John Cooper]

Hi Cindy - I will send you a private message and attempt to assist you in getting the photo posted so you can share it.

 

Thanks

John

[pfrost]

Hi Cindy - I will send you a private message and attempt to assist you in getting the photo posted so you can share it.

 

Thanks

John

 

I look forward to seeing your grandfather's wings as well. And welcome to our little forum of wing fanatics. I am sure everyone would love to hear more about your grandfather's flying and would enjoy seeing his wings.

 

Best regards

Patrick

[Shenkursk]

read you posts discussing polish on some of the wings and wondered if it would be inappropriate to polish Granddady's wings before putting them in a case?

Thank you for any advice you can give me.

Cindy

 

Hi Cindy

 

In will respectfully disagree with my friends here. In this and most other areas of collectables, polishing away patina is NOT advisable. The same logic (they would have been polished when worn) could also be applied to Civil War buckles... yet from an appraiser's point of view, value is often diminished - sometimes significantly - when patina is removed. Same applies to refinishing furniture, etc. Some folks like their stuff to be polished, and as private property that is certainly their right. However, when we have wings for sale, any that have had their patina left alone sell much quicker and for higher values than identical examples that have been polished.

 

Most collectors do distinguish between cleaning away grime without sacrificing patina, and actual polishing.

[Nack]

Hi Cindy

 

In will respectfully disagree with my friends here. In this and most other areas of collectables, polishing away patina is NOT advisable. The same logic (they would have been polished when worn) could also be applied to Civil War buckles... yet from an appraiser's point of view, value is often diminished - sometimes significantly - when patina is removed. Same applies to refinishing furniture, etc. Some folks like their stuff to be polished, and as private property that is certainly their right. However, when we have wings for sale, any that have had their patina left alone sell much quicker and for higher values than identical examples that have been polished.

 

Most collectors do distinguish between cleaning away grime without sacrificing patina, and actual polishing.

 

Cindy - One could go either way, but remember, once the patina (age) on the wings is removed by cleaning, it cannot be restored, other than by waiting another 80 years (or whatever time it's been). So, food for thought...

[pfrost]

Cindy - One could go either way, but remember, once the patina (age) on the wings is removed by cleaning, it cannot be restored, other than by waiting another 80 years (or whatever time it's been). So, food for thought...

 

I am not sure that Cindy was asking about value, but I doubt that polishing the wings would damage the value one cent. An ID'd Dallas wing with provenance from the family would get top dollar, whether or not it was as shiny as a new nickel or was as dark as pitch.

 

It is the rarity and beauty of the wings that set the value, not its level of "shiny". An individual collector may not want to touch or polish a wing, but it simply doesn't change the value at all. I have seen polished WWI wings sell for exactly the same price as unpolished wings. It just doesn't seem to matter. And like Terry said, the original pilot would NOT have let his wings get tarnished while wearing them--so it wouldn't at all be inappropriate to shine them up the way he would have wanted them.

[hawk3370]

Terry,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know how to post a picture. The wings are a full (not half) set. The beading appears to me to be slightly finer/smaller than the pictures on this thread. The beading extends past the feathers on both sides. At the top of the wings there seem to be multiple small feathers (not just 3 as I have seen in some photos). I honestly can't tell what metal the US is. The U looks yellowish but the letters are also tarnished like the wings (??). The material the metal is backed on is in excellent condition on the front of the wings. On the back, the fabric on both tips is worn/rubbed. The diamond stamped leather (??) over the pin back is in good condition and tightly fixed. There are 4 holes in the material that may be moths as on the uniform.

 

My Grandfather was William Forest Brelsford. If my facts are accurate he was inducted into the Army in Boston, Mass. on 1-2-1917 and attended the School of Military AERO at the University of Illinois. He was discharged as a 2nd Lt. 11/10/1918.

 

That is all I know.

 

Cindy

 

Cindy,

The wings you have would have been made by Bailey Banks and Biddle (BB&. The style with the three feathers on the shoulder were made by Eisenstadt out of St. Louis, MO. The only info I have on your grandfather was that he was rated as a Reserve Military Aviator (RMA), rank of 2nd Lieutenant and his home of record was Kansas City, MO. which you probably already know.

 

Terry

[CliffP]

:wink2:

Your grandfather would not have worn them in a tarnished state. Some collectors go nuts when one suggest polishing a wing or other piece of memorbilia, however in the sterling wing area my opinion is that since no self respecting pilot would wear tarnished wings I would CAREFULLY clean them and use a cuetip or something such as that to remove as much of the tarnish as possible. I clean the wings in my collection once a year depending on how much they have started to darken.

 

Terry

I am not sure that Cindy was asking about value, but I doubt that polishing the wings would damage the value one cent. An ID'd Dallas wing with provenance from the family would get top dollar, whether or not it was as shiny as a new nickel or was as dark as pitch.

 

It is the rarity and beauty of the wings that set the value, not its level of "shiny". An individual collector may not want to touch or polish a wing, but it simply doesn't change the value at all. I have seen polished WWI wings sell for exactly the same price as unpolished wings. It just doesn't seem to matter. And like Terry said, the original pilot would NOT have let his wings get tarnished while wearing them--so it wouldn't at all be inappropriate to shine them up the way he would have wanted them.

 

Patrick

When it comes to polishing silver World War 1 wings I think the comments made by Terry and Patrick make a lot of sense; however, when it comes to cleaning World War 2 wings I sometimes make an exception and leave the patina alone. Why? It's just a quirk of mine. :think:

 

:wink2: Here is one bit of advice for those who do polish their wings no matter what the era.

 

After polishing them, apply a coat of Trewax Clear Paste Wax or Johnson's Clear Paste Wax. It's an old trick used by museum curators to prevent air from coming in direct contact with silverware and causing it to tarnish. Once you do it the shine on your wings will last for years.

 

Cliff

[BEAST]

Cindy,

The wings you have would have been made by Bailey Banks and Biddle (BB&. The style with the three feathers on the shoulder were made by Eisenstadt out of St. Louis, MO. The only info I have on your grandfather was that he was rated as a Reserve Military Aviator (RMA), rank of 2nd Lieutenant and his home of record was Kansas City, MO. which you probably already know.

 

Terry

 

 

You may have this also, but this was on the Missouri State Archives website ( http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/soldiers/de...&offset=525 ):

 

BRELSFORD, WILLIAM F. W

(Surname) (Christian name) (Army serial number) (Race)

Residence:

3227 CENTRAL ST KANSAS CITY, MO

(Street and house number) (Town or City) (County) (State)

*Inducted at: on 11/10/1918

Place of birth: Age or date of birth: 15AUG1894

Organizations served in, with dates of assignments and transfers:

 

AS TO DISCH

Grades, with date of appointment:

 

2ND LT

Engagements:

Wounds or other injuries received in action:

Served overseas from † To † from † To †

Honorably discharged on demobilization Y

In view of occupation he was, on date of discharge, reported N per cent disabled.

Remarks:

 

 

 

So it appears that he was entered the Army on November 10, 1918. It is possible that this date reflects the date he was commisioned. From this record, it appears that he did not serve overseas.

 

Good luck with your research!

 

Edit: Ok, Cindy, I reread the thread and saw the information that you posted. Also, I saw the card for his enlistment in the Missouri Archive and now I think I have a better picture of his service. Although I think you have it right with a slight change to his discharge date. He enlisted on January 2, 1917 and he was discharged to receive his commision on November 10, 1918.

 

BRELSFORD, WILLIAM F. 972,972 W

(Surname) (Christian name) (Army serial number) (Race)

Residence:

4230 CAMPBELL ST KANSAS CITY, MO

(Street and house number) (Town or City) (County) (State)

*Inducted at: BOSTON, MA on 1/2/1917

Place of birth: Age or date of birth: 15AUG1894

Organizations served in, with dates of assignments and transfers:

 

SCH OF MIL AERO UNIV OF IL,URBANA,IL TO 18 SEP/18;DET CADETS SOUTHER FLD FLYING

Grades, with date of appointment:

 

PVT 1/18

Engagements:

Wounds or other injuries received in action:

Served overseas from † To † from † To †

Honorably discharged on demobilization Y

In view of occupation he was, on date of discharge, reported N per cent disabled.

Remarks:

 

SCH AMERICUS,GA TO DISCH

 

 

 

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Form No. 724-1, A.G.O. *Strike out words not applicable. †Dates of departure from and arrival in the U.S.

 

 

 

 

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Form No. 724-1, A.G.O. *Strike out words not applicable. †Dates of departure from and arrival in the U.S.

[BelligerentBlue]

I have a minty WWI officers coat. I'd love to find a set of wings for it as you can see where someone stripped them off