BEAST Posted June 28, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 28, 2009 I picked up a model 1850 Medical Staff type sword at a theater costume shop and it is stuck abour 2/3 of the way in the scabbard. The scabbard is a black metal scabbard that looks like the 1860 Staff sword scabbard. I can move the sword left and right, but cannot move it farther into the scabbard or out of it. I even thought someone may have pinned it into scabbard, but can't find any pins or screws. I have tried some oil into the scabbard, but no luck. I have taken a wooden block and hammer to try to tap it out, but once again, no luck. Even tried hanging it upside down with the hope that gravity would eventually move it out of there. No joy. I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbet38 Posted June 28, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 28, 2009 I picked up a model 1850 Medical Staff type sword at a theater costume shop and it is stuck abour 2/3 of the way in the scabbard. The scabbard is a black metal scabbard that looks like the 1860 Staff sword scabbard. I can move the sword left and right, but cannot move it farther into the scabbard or out of it. I even thought someone may have pinned it into scabbard, but can't find any pins or screws. I have tried some oil into the scabbard, but no luck. I have taken a wooden block and hammer to try to tap it out, but once again, no luck. Even tried hanging it upside down with the hope that gravity would eventually move it out of there. No joy. I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks! Beast, If the scabbard finish can take it, try applying some heat to the scabbard. A gentle warming in the oven, perhaps, to start. Then, if no luck, a little applied heat from a propane torch, but keeping the flame moving quickly and not damaging the scabbard. After it's heated, the scabbard and blade might be more easily tapped apart using the technique you used before. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laury Allison Posted June 28, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 28, 2009 I would think stick it in the deep freeze instead of heating it. Cold makes things contract....heat makes things expand. I've used this method on hard drives that wouldn't spin up and it worked...it may work on swords too. I am pretty sure I would try the cold method before the heat method???? Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtbrown Posted June 28, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 28, 2009 Why not try both? Pack it in the freezer overnight then hit the scabbard with the propane torch to expand it while the blade stays contracted. Do not try this by yourself. Have Bubba and his big brother there to pull on the two ends while you apply the heat. Do it outside so, if the thing does come loose, they'll land in the grass, not fall over a chair or through a window. Tom :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted June 28, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 28, 2009 I'm not the expert here on the sword vs. scabbard thing here but, I worked with metals for years so I did learn a few things. Might I suggest that if you use the heat method to use a heat gun instead of an open flame like a propane torch. This method just seems more comfortable to me and then I'm not envisioning your scabbard being damaged by a flame. :pinch: Of course, heat guns put out 1200 degrees of flame-less heat so, I'd still move slow and very carefully. As for freeze/heat technique, I wouldn't suggest it. Ultra cold with sudden heat can mess up the tensile strength of your collectible sword. Heat is always better than cold for removing something that is fitting tight. One last thought, did someone put the sword in backward(opposite of the slight natural curve found on some swords) thus wedging it in there? I had one like this and the only way we got it loose was: heat + two strong friends + strong opposite pulling = finally got it out. Hope it works for you Erick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpw_42 Posted June 28, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 28, 2009 I'd like to add a thought here...assuming it's in the scabbard correctly. Go to Wallyworld and get a $4 can of PB Blast (basically, WD-40 on steroids). Liberally squirt it into the scabbard, and then let it sit for a couple days; you might even apply more PB over the days you're letting it sit. The idea is to go slow and let the chemicals do the work for you. Then, if that doesn't work, you can go to the heat or cold methods above. I've used a LOT of PB Blast recently, to good result, in removing bolts, screws, etc. from a 1941 truck I'm restoring. "First do no harm" (and I'm NOT a doc!). Good luck, Thrasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spathologist Posted June 28, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 28, 2009 Personally, I'd go to town with a rubber mallet. If you go the heat route, just remember that you've already squirted lube down there and the flash point of those is around 400 degrees F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted June 28, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 28, 2009 Also remember that the scabbard liners in a Model 1850 Medical Staff style sword will be wood. Don't set them afire with heat or swell them with liquid. I think I would tap the edges of the scabbard with a rubber mallet and see if that will change the oval shape just enough to free the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Jerry Posted June 28, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 28, 2009 Perhaps you are just not the rightful King of England.... But seriously, good luck! I suck at projects like that. I would end up with a broken sword, a broken scabbard, and probably a few broken fingers. I leave "fixing" things for those that know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted June 28, 2009 Share #10 Posted June 28, 2009 Let us all hope this doesn't all end up in next year's Darwin Awards.... :w00t: I wonder if you have a small bit of metal or wood lodged between the blade and the inside of the scabbard? Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Military-Memorabilia Posted June 28, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 28, 2009 The wooden block and mallet is fine, if the problem is a minor sticking point. Your problem appears to be more serious. What you need to find a tool that will apply expansion pressure (simply put, a pliers in reverse). A hardware store should have one. Protect the scabbard throat and underside of the guard with blocks of wood with metal plates (so the tool does not mearly compress the wood as you apply force - resulting in no work being done). Work one side of the blade, then the other. You might consider asking a friend to help, and each of you use a tool simultaneously on both sides of the blade. If the sword is too far out of the scabbard for a normal tool to be of use, make one out of two pieces of 1x2 boards and a bolt. Take care, and Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted June 28, 2009 Share #12 Posted June 28, 2009 Well Erick, with all the different ideas shown here, one thing is certain... you'll at least have someone here to blame if something does break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted June 29, 2009 Folks, thanks for all of the suggestions and recommendations! I am also hoping that I don't totally mess up the sword either. If all of these solutions fail, I may have to contact the Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite and see if she can help! Either that or wrap the bloody thing in det cord and blow it in place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted June 29, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 29, 2009 I would think stick it in the deep freeze instead of heating it. Cold makes things contract....heat makes things expand. I've used this method on hard drives that wouldn't spin up and it worked...it may work on swords too. I am pretty sure I would try the cold method before the heat method???? Laury ??? If you contract the scabbard, it would logically get tighter. If you heat the scabbard, logically it gets hot faster than the blade and expands at a faster rate As an auto restorer for many years, I have had many chances to use the Hot Wrench, and if you want to loosen a stubborn bolt, you heat the metal that has the hole...in this case, the bolt is the sword, and the bracket with the hole is the scabbard :thumbsup: The only time I wanted to get things cold was when I installed ball joints, and then I'd pop them in the freezer overnight, to help ease the press fit into the control arm A possible solution to this is a little hydraulic action. Failing all else, a substance like grease could be put into the scabbard. Seal up the throat around the blade except for a wedge of wood, and tap the wood with a hammer. The grease will refuse to contact, putting pressure on...everything else. Of course, 'everything else' includes the scabbard, which could possibly break before the sword pops free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayg Posted June 29, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 29, 2009 Try a hair dryer. It's safe and it will heat the metal pretty good, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder505 Posted June 29, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 29, 2009 C-4 also works. It works 100% of the time when used in large quantities, however, there may be some condition issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted July 12, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 12, 2009 A little Kano Kroil "the oil that creeps" is great for loosening frozen metal parts. Heat is always an option too. Heating and cooling theoretically would work about the same but more heat is easier to apply locally unless you have access to liquid oxygen. Keep in mind though that too much heat will change the temper of the metal or even damage it. Also keep in mind different types of metal expand and contract at different rates (ex. aluminum expands more and faster than steel at the same temperature). One method that I've used to good effect is heating the part you want to expand(in this case the scabbard) and cooling the part you want contracted (in this case the blade) with running water from a hose simultaniously while keeping pressure on it. I've had a coupling that wouldn't budge with heat on the coupling and a hydraulic puller, I used water to cool the shaft on the side I wanted the coupling to move to and it worked like magic. The same principle works well with frozen bolts. If or when you get the sword loose you'll want to inspect the sword and scabbard and correct the problem before resheathing it. Clean out any corrosion and check for and remove any burrs that may be causing it to catch. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted July 12, 2009 Thanks for continuing to send possible solutions. I am trying to be as patient as possible with this scabbard and have been tapping it with a rubber mallet. No success yet. The sword moves left/right and front/back. Bloody thing just won't move up or down! I swear that it feels like someone tapped a pin into it, but I can't find any evidence of it. Arrgh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 12, 2009 How about some pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted July 13, 2009 How about some pics? Good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share #21 Posted July 13, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37thguy Posted July 13, 2009 Share #22 Posted July 13, 2009 Hey Beast, Just a thought, but are you sure the sword and scabbard belong together? :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share #23 Posted July 13, 2009 Hey Beast, Just a thought, but are you sure the sword and scabbard belong together? :think: I really am not sure, but that was my first thought, as it doesn't seem to fit the style of the medical or pay scabbard. Then again, I don't think this is a 1840 pattern medical sword, but a militia version. Still I hate to bugger up the scabbard or the sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37thguy Posted July 13, 2009 Share #24 Posted July 13, 2009 Can you post a pic of the scabbard and one where the two meet? With the sword pulled out as far as it will go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted July 13, 2009 Can you post a pic of the scabbard and one where the two meet? With the sword pulled out as far as it will go? Unfortunetly, this is it. It won't come out and it won't go in; it is like it is pinned in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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