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Helmet heat stamp dating


ClaptonIsGod
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ClaptonIsGod

Hello all, I have a chart which tells me by the heat stamp when a helmet was made, right down to the month and year, but only McCords, so if you have any urge to find out when your shells were made, post your heat stamp from your McCord shell and I will tell you, however will not get to most of them until 7 weeks from now due to summer camp with no computers or electricity, but post it and I will do it all when I get back

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Hello all, I have a chart which tells me by the heat stamp when a helmet was made, right down to the month and year, but only McCords, so if you have any urge to find out when your shells were made, post your heat stamp from your McCord shell and I will tell you, however will not get to most of them until 7 weeks from now due to summer camp with no computers or electricity, but post it and I will do it all when I get back

 

Start a new topic with that after camp and we'll pin it.

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There are many in the helmet collecting community that do not agree that this heat stamp chart is correct. I've got this same information available to me as do several other collectors here on the forum since it was published in the book: Helmets of the ETO by Regis Giard & Frederic Blais some time back. If you have the book, this chart can be found on pg. 27. While this book is well done, I do disagree with the heat stamp chart.

 

This heat stamp chart was put together on a lot of assumption & speculation. I have found it to be flawed with certain heat stamp numbers which are supposed to be, late war numbers, showing up on early war fixed loop helmets and a early war number showing up on a late war swivel loop helmet. While it may be somewhat more helpful than anything we've seen before for dating helmet shells, it is by no means close to being 100% correct and can only be used, at best, as a tool for the curious but, it is in no way an absolute authority.

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../.. I have found it to be flawed with certain heat stamp numbers which are supposed to be, late war numbers, showing up on early war fixed loop helmets and a early war number showing up on a late war swivel loop helmet../..

 

Could you please provide numbers and pictures of bales...etc. of those helmets... I am curious ;) .

 

Regards,

 

Hill 84

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the chart

Please Note: I'm Sorry, but I had to remove the photo of the chart that BOLO posted. It is copyrighted material. Direct from the book: All rights reserved. No part of this publication can be transmitted or reproduced without the written consent of all the authors and the publisher.

 

The book is entitled: "Helmets of the ETO" and the chart can be found on page 27

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello,

First of all, thanks to Bugme for erasing the chart that had been posted and for mentioning the source !

 

This chart represents a huge and difficult work… lot numbers are not always clearly stamped, some figures are erased, inside of the shell repainted, etc…

 

About the chart, no, it can’t be taken strictly, but yes, it can be taken seriously.

 

The chart can be taken seriously because it is based on the observation of about 700 Mc Cord shells. The chart was quite a great surprise for many collectors and we had a lot of feedbacks, more lot numbers to add in the data base and all these new lot numbers matched the chart. We now have about 1000 lot numbers in the data base and if you want to join… feel free to contact us!

 

It can’t be taken strictly for the following reasons:

 

For each part of the shell (rim, loops), periods in which variations were used are overlapping. For instance, from lot# 720 to lot# 787, both fixed and hinged loops can be found but most of them are fixed loops. But compared to the 1350 #lots in total, 67 overlapping #lots represent a small period (2 months) and a thin margin of error if it can be called an error or an uncertainty.

 

We also found a lot #1017 Mc Cord with hinged loops and back seam manganese steel rim. According to the chart, this lot number matches August 1944, so too early (back seam manganese was introduced in November 1944, lot #1100 in theory).

 

It shows Mac Cord didn’t use a strict FIFO (First In First Out). With strict FIFO, the first batch of raw material received is first used on the assembly line. So, in the case of this lot#1017 shell, the FIFO was not respected: the lot#1017 steel plate remained about 4 months in the warehouse of Mc Cord while following lots were used: when lot#1017 finally came into assembly lines, the specs had changed, switched from front to rear seam. The result is once again an overlapping period of about 80 lot #, another short period.

 

So the transition periods (from stainless to manganese steel or from front to rear seam for instance) are not sharp: you never find lot #X as the last number for a spec and always the next spec on lots # X+1.

We are now working on a Schlueter chart and it’s the same… but with biggest overlapping periods!

 

Tweedie and Hill 84.

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Thanks Frederic for explaining the inconsistencies on the chart. I by no means meant to berate you and Regis on this chart and your clarification really does help clear things up. Thanks for a well thought out answer that addresses these concerns. :thumbsup: This chart at least gives us a close idea, which is more than we had before. Wouldn't it have been nice had McCord thought about these helmets as collectibles for the future and our desperate need, as collectors, to know exactly when they were made? ;)

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Got da Penny

Thank You for Everyones input. I am so thankful to be a member of this forum and have the information provided above for US Helmet Collectors. This "sharing" of information is what collecting is all about. :thumbsup:

 

Carey

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  • 2 years later...
Hello all, I have a chart which tells me by the heat stamp when a helmet was made, right down to the month and year, but only McCords, so if you have any urge to find out when your shells were made, post your heat stamp from your McCord shell and I will tell you, however will not get to most of them until 7 weeks from now due to summer camp with no computers or electricity, but post it and I will do it all when I get back

 

 

Has the chart ever been posted????

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Has the chart ever been posted????

 

If you look up a couple of replies, you will see where it had been, but was removed by Bugme due to copyright issues.

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  • 1 year later...

Appreciate this us an old thread, but If anyone has a copy if the book and can give me an idea of what year M 335 C might be, that would be much appreciated.

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If this is the same one you posted earlier, it's like I said: There should not be an "M" at the beginning and 335 puts it in the 1942 range however, you also stated that it was a rear seam. The rear seam helmets were not produced until almost the end of the war. A photograph of this helmet and the heatstamp would go a long way toward clearing this up.

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This helmet as suggested before is post war, and looking at the straps possibly foreign. And the things that make it post war:

 

1. M before the number.

2. Rear seam, which was used LATE in the war but continued on.

3. T1 connectors on the straps.

4. The fact that the straps are clip on.

5. The straps look to me like they might not be US made but I cant be sure from the pics.

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Hi jkash thanks for the notes. The straps looks like they have always been with the helmet and have the anchor mark on the buckle. I can take more pics if it helps, just steer me on what you are looking for.

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I have quite a few of these post World War II M-1's with with the "M" prefix. Most have the green hardware made during the 1950's and I believe these are from the 1951-1958 run of production when McCord was the sole producer. They have the sand texture and are a darker olive drab than the 1960's 10y color. Your chinstraps look like those with the squared off end clip (post 1965) and added later, maybe reissue.

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Pump, this one has a uniform sand texture and and the shell is in very good condition bar a few small dents, like its had a cover on it all its life, so I was expecting it to be 60s. The metal end clips that finish off the webbing straps are squared off. I'm going to see if I can see any closeup pics straps of others from around this time. Thnaks for the thoughts so far.

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