Jump to content

Ref Thread: WWI Victory Medal


duarte1223
 Share

Recommended Posts

If you were issued a WW1 victory medal and were not entitled to any bars it would have a short ribbon whether you were in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, YMCA, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not looked at Laslo's book on the Victory in a long time, but not sure the USN/Marine procured they're Victories from different source or order than the Army one issue.

 

So that would be key: was there a Navy purchase order specifying X ribbon length? Or an Army order? A quick ebay search did not show any short ribbons like this with a single Army clasp: a couple of Army single clasp medals I saw had space for a second clasp. I've had enough WWI VM's to have learned just how long the ribbon can be, but I don't recall ever having one this short.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Army specs call for a ribbon 1-3/8th inches long. The one on this ribbon (which seems to be the same length as the shortest ribbons on ebay) is 1 inch: that's a big difference. Does anyone have photo of a WWI Army uniform with these shortest ribbons?

 

4.jpg

 

5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
BigJohn#3RD

Any man or women, enlisted, officer, nurse, would have been authorized the VM if they had documentation to support their service.

 

The tricky part is determining what clasp or clasps were authorized, which clasps they were authorized. I have seen service members who were awarded clasps for battles they could not have been in due to their being in the hospital being treated for wounds or gas exposure during the time a specific campaign and most often seen men who were back from the hospital in other units but not at the front, in the rear with the gear in a support activity, not receive a clasp even though they were on the roles at the Division level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Yes it is a French made unofficial "battle" clasp (Saint Mihiel) adding it would never have been issued together with a service clasp (France). The French type of clasps were available at veterans and military shows over the years. I believe this owner wanted to display the area he served near, as his clasp, FRANCE might have been just to general for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

Since US soldiers who served stateside, and not in the AEF, during WWI could receive the WWI Victory Medal I have a couple of questions about the appearance of the award.

 

If a soldier was inducted and Federalized but never went overseas would the award be worn without any area clasp on the ribbon?

 

If a soldier was serving in a State Militia but was never Federalized or sent overseas would he be eligible for the WWI Victory Medal?

 

Was the Navy award identical to the Army award except for the clasps?

 

Thanks for looking.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since US soldiers who served stateside, and not in the AEF, during WWI could receive the WWI Victory Medal I have a couple of questions about the appearance of the award.

 

If a soldier was inducted and Federalized but never went overseas would the award be worn without any area clasp on the ribbon?

Yes.

 

If a soldier was serving in a State Militia but was never Federalized or sent overseas would he be eligible for the WWI Victory Medal?

No (Google Congressional Texas Cavalry Medal).

 

Was the Navy award identical to the Army award except for the clasps?

Yes.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

The Defensive Sector bar and the country bars have no spacers. Please note that just because a medal comes in a case or box or has a filled out packing slip does not guarantee its authenticity. There are plenty of medal set assemblers out there.

 

Semper Fi,

Bruce Linz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

One of the questions that have often come up on this thread is how the veteran applied for the Victory Medal (VM),and Clasps based on his service. The short answer is that he presented documentation to a local authority to apply for it. Going through the Ancestry.com Pennsylvania World War Veterans Compensation Claims I have found numerous request for VM and the appropriate claps that the veteran was authorized. Besides the Compensation request most veterans had an AGO card just like the ones seen in the New York archives found on Ancestry for WWI Veterans.

 

Attached, is World War One Mario Acerro of Bethlehem Pa request for a Victory Medal. He has served with Co H 327 Inf 82nd Div during WWI; the card indicates that he applied for his medal at the Scranton Pennsylvania Recruiting Station. The station representative filled out the card with an X in the boxes next to the VM clasps on the left side of the document for the official combat clasps, St. Mihiel and Meuse-Argonne his medal is authorized to have attached to the suspension ribbon. Below the combat clasps, typed in are locations and dates for which he was authorized to have a Defensive Sector Clasp (Toul 27/6-8/9, 1918) on the medal's suspension ribbon. On the right side of the request is the clasps issued and the authorization number that was filled out by the Depot granting the VM with Clasps.
A copy of this
I hope this fills in some of the questions out there.

 

 

post-5224-0-65612400-1514400196_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Here is my WW1 Victory Medal question. I am putting together a shadow box for My brother in laws father, He severed on BB20 USS Vermont, 1917-1919 she was basically a training ship until just at was end, She stayed in Norfolk for training seamen. In November 1918 she was transformed to a transport for returning personal of the AEF. There was one brief visit to S. America to return the body of a dignitary. Where he crossed the equator. So he made 4 trips to France and back. Would his victory medal be a plain medal, Transport clasp or Atlantic fleet clasp ?? Anybody got a clue? Lost on what too do. I guess any would do. His papers have nothing there. Thanks and Regards, David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Plain Victory medal I guess. If the trips on the US Vermont to France and back were before November 11th, 1918 he was eligible to the clasps.

 

Regards

Herman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

During the back to back snowstorms here on the East Coast I had some time to root though the boxes and sort out some things. Knowing how us militaria guys like seeing the oddities and manufacturer errors I thought I would post this LYS bar.

 

Not a big deal but there will always be goofs and mistakes in stuff produced in the millions.

 

Dennis

post-2843-0-56191200-1522367459_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Just to verify, if a Marine spent his entire enlistment with 7th Reg, 71st Company stationed in Cuba 1917 through 1919. He would get WWI Victory with a West Indies Clasp Rope border, correct? Separation Date 9/6/1919, when did they note this award on discharge paperwork?

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim,

 

Your Marine most likely did not have the award of the World War Victory Medal noted in his service record. The was authorized by the Navy in June 1919 and the distribution of the actually medal did not start until August 1920. A man had to make application for his medal, then when it was approved, the medal would be mailed to him. This process seems to have bypassed Headquarters Marine Corps.

 

Semper Fi,

Bruce Linz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim, this is from my book.

June 21, 1920 - The Navy started receiving requests from their personnel and veterans for the Victory Medal. Unlike the Army, whose collection center was the Quartermaster Depot in Philadelphia, active Navy personnel submitted their requests via the commanders of either their ships and/or their duty stations. Another choice was to make the request directly to the Bureau of Navigation issuing agency in Washington, D.C.

 

July 20, 1920 - The Navy postponed their issuing date, even though they were already receiving requests for the Victory Medal.

 

July 26, 1920 - The Victory Button for the Navy and Marine Corps was also delayed.

 

August 17, 1920 – The Navy started taking orders. All the delays stemmed from the fact that the Navy's new supplier, who was also supplying the Army, now had to contend with the Navy's demand for an ever-increasing number of medals, as the applications went from 8,000 initially, to now 12,000 every three days, which in turn slowed the Navy's orders.

 

Other than the Navy's official delay in July of 1920, obtaining a medal was relatively easy. Discharged sailors, marines, nurses, hospitalized patients, disabled veterans, and retired personnel applied for their medals directly to the Navy Department's issuing centers, either in Washington, D.C., or at the nearest Navy Recruiting Office. Stocking these locations with medals without a clasp, cut down on shipping expenses and assisted with the distribution.

 

People who were entitled to more than one named Duty clasp, were allowed to choose which of the two or three named clasps they preferred. The 1953 Naval awards manual, in Part IV- Campaign and Service Medals, Paragraph 11, World War I Victory Medals, Section 2 states, "No one will be entitled to more than one Duty clasp." That statement remained unchanged in the 1990 DOD manual.

 

Medals were awarded with the form (N. No. 516) which included name, rank, serial number, and which clasp was to be awarded. There was a return slip to be cut off at the bottom, and instructions on line 4, which read, "Please sign and return receipt attached below." When necessary, included with each of these forms was a pre-addressed envelope with postage paid.

for print Cover 1 - 2nd Book (front & back) - Modified the Aruthors.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

In going through some of my grandfathers old service related paperwork, I came across this document that explains the method of receiving a Victory Medal near the little town in lived near in 1920. I thought some may find this interesting.


Kim

post-60-0-89453400-1545241305_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I suggest you look at the history of the 2nd Division, AEF, during WWI. The 2nd Division was also sometimes called the "Marine Division", as it was the only AEF Division with a Marine Brigade. This was the Marine 4th Brigade, comprised of the 5th and 6th Regiments, and the 6th Machine Gun Regiment.

This Division was only awarded battle clasps for the Asine, Asine-Marne, St. Mihiel, and Muese-Argonne Offensives. The bottom clasp would be the Defensive Sector, which for the Marines, was Verdun (Toulon) Sector.

The short ribbon denotes that the medal was given posthumously, as happened with my great uncle, who served in the 6th Regiment, Marine 4th Brigade. He was KIA 9 October, 1918, in the village of St. Etienne a Arnes, as part of the Battle of Blanc Mont Ridge, of the Muese-Argonne Offensive.

His ribbon is short, With 5 bronze battle or campaign stars attached to the bar. Each star represents one battle campaign.

Provided a man lived to receive his medal, a long "rainbow streamer" was attached so that the battle clasps could be properly attached to the ribbon. Additionally, the 5 bronze stars could be exchanged for one silver star. Not to be confused with the Silver Star Medal.

 

A service star is a miniature bronze or silver five-pointed star ​3⁄16 inch (4.8 mm) in diameter that is authorized to be worn by members of the seven uniformed services of the United States on medals and ribbons to denote an additional award or service period. The service star may also be referred to as a campaign star or battle star depending on which award is authorized the star and the manner in which the device is used for the award.

Service stars, campaign stars, and battle stars are worn with one point of the star pointing up on the suspension ribbon of a medal or service ribbon. A silver star is worn instead of five bronze stars. A service star is sometimes mistaken for a Bronze Star (Bronze Star Medal) or Silver Star (Silver Star Medal). The service star is also similar to the gold and silver ​5⁄16 Inch Stars which may be authorized to be worn on specific individual decorations of certain services to denote additional decorations.

Campaign stars are authorized for these United States campaign medals (bronze and silver campaign stars are worn to denote participation in a designated campaign or campaign phase or period)

 

"Manual of Military Decorations and Awards, Volume 3". Department of Defense. Paragraph 15e (Page 67).

 

Hope this is useful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MMcollector

Short ribbons were issued to Navy & Marine Corps personal regardless of their living status or being K.I.A. They were issued this way because (typically) they were issued with just 1 bar or no bar at all. There are verified examples in groups with 2 bars. Marines that fought with Army Divisions would be issued an Army type medal with Army clasps.

 

The Army type Medals ribbon length was decided per how many bars as issued. 5 bars do not equal a silver star. A silver star citation equals a Silver Star on a Victory medal. I beleive Bronze Stars on the ribbon drape are against regulation but it sure looks good and there are many documented groups with stars and bars on Victory Medals. The regulation for WWII Campaign medals and the use of Bronze & Silver Stars do not apply to the WWI Victory Medal. Please correct me if I missed anything or if I have something twisted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These three pages are from my book on the US Victory medals with matrix of units awarded what clasps and much, much, more, with over 300 pages.\

 

 

post-12923-0-80214800-1552219459_thumb.jpg

 

post-12923-0-45841100-1552219634_thumb.jpg

 

post-12923-0-73883300-1552219747_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
Sumserbrown

I know originally this medal was never issued like this. The Aviation bar looks good to me so I had assumed that this was someone involved with the USN who got posted on service to France and England during the war and then afterwards was at a vets convention where someone was selling repro or copy bars and bought these two to add to his medal. Does that sound plausible?

thanks

Rob

563 obverse.JPG

563 bars.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...