brannow Posted June 8, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 8, 2009 Hi All, I just got in a WWI US aviators grouping. It has 2 tunic with bullion insignia, 2 belts with shoulder straps, 1 brown leather sword hanger, 1 pair of pants leggings and gas mask. and winter over coat. The stuff is a bit moth eaten. My question is what is this stuff worth? Thanks in advance, Bill Rannow Minneapolis Minnesota Here are the French made wings which measure 3 1/2" long Here are pics of both tailors labels. The first one (Darker green tunic) is a French tailor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19delta-uav Posted June 8, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 8, 2009 Wow those are some nice wings, but a real shame about the condition of the uniforms. Let me know if you decide to get rid of them, I don't yet have a ww1 air grouping and this would definately be a good starting point. As for value, I have no idea as wwi is not my area of specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 8, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 8, 2009 Bill: Are the pieces named at all? If not named or IDed, they'll be a tough sell save for parts value (at least in my opinion). Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted June 8, 2009 Bill: Are the pieces named at all? If not named or IDed, they'll be a tough sell save for parts value (at least in my opinion). Dave There is a faded name tag in one of them. I have messed with it in photo shop but I am not that great at it. I need to try a black light. Here is a picture of the tag Bill Rannow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted June 9, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 9, 2009 Bill, As dave says, the uniforms are almost too far gone. Since you don't know his name, the value is in the insignia: - French Made Pilot wings (very nice condition) $750 to $900 each - Air Service officer insignia (single) $50 - Officer US $5 to $10 for a pair - Third Army patch (mothed) $15 - Misc ribbons and insignia $10 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themick Posted June 9, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 9, 2009 Hi Bill, Whatever you do with them, please don't strip the insignia from the uniforms because of the condition of the uniforms. From a true collector/military historian's point of view, it's much more meaningful if the grouping is left intact -- after all, it's been together for 90 years!! What, after all that time, could justify cannibalizing it at this point. It's much more interesting than merely looking at so many pieces of disembodied insignig which are easily found if you have the money. Let's put it another way. If those were Civil War uniforms, there would be no question of keeping them intact. Keep in mind, a Civil War uniform isn't really all that much older than these - only about 50 years -- less time than has elapsed between WWII and now. This group "speaks" to me, whereas mere pieces of insignia, no matter what their value, really don't. If nothing else, you actually learn something about the person who wore it, that he was of such and such a size -- putting a "human face" on the pieces. That would be lost if these pieces were stripped merely for convenience. As far as $$ value is concerned, to me the group is worth more as it is than the mere additive value of the pieces of insignia. "Patch pirates" have a different opinion, of course. Do you have any idea as to the origin of this group? The fact that it's still all together suggests that it may have come "out of the woodwork" only recently. Very nice find!!! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted June 9, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 9, 2009 I agree with Steve on the question of preserving the grouping. His points are as usual "spot on" and worthy of your further consideration. Regarding their respective conditions, there are companies out their who can take care most of the mothing for a surprisingly reasonable charge while the other damage will likely require more work / expense. I have read that an application of sulfide of ammonium can sometimes restore old ink - I have no experiences in this and of course and expert should be consulted. I did tinker with the tag a bit (my software is not too sophisticated), not much more revealed. I believe there is digital enhancing equipment in use today that can overcome the faded ink. s/f Darrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 9, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 9, 2009 cwnorma's evaluation is about spot on...I think with a bit less mothing the group would be something around $2K. I'd say given the condition though, a fair price for the group would be around $1600, but even at that it might well be a tough sell. If you can pull a name off the tag, you might be able to get a bit more out of it depending on what he did (is that a silver star on the WW1 Victory ribbon?) Unfortunately, people are very quick to split groups these days...I sold off 90% of my WW1 collection in January and have already seen at least four of the groups (nice complete officer ones at that) split up and sold in various parts. Even more irksome is that the research I did on them before I sold the groups was missing as well. I guess if I wanted to keep them all together I should have never sold them, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do (you can't eat uniforms)... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted June 9, 2009 Hi Guys, I do not intend to split the grouping up. The grouping came out of eastern Kentucky through a picker I know. The star is bronze I think not silver. I can not find my black light or I would have tried to look at the tag that way. Thanks and talk soon, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted June 10, 2009 Ok I can clearly see a 76 in front of the name. Are there any books with a list of names? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinO Posted June 10, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 10, 2009 Hey Bill, great set! (now get off the internet and find your blacklight!) -A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted June 10, 2009 I found the black light but its not quit bright enough. I will probably have to remove the tag to read it. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted June 10, 2009 Share #13 Posted June 10, 2009 There are a few references. One contains information on the WWI aviators of New England and then the book called (IRC) Wings of Heros that contains a great deal of information about the pilots who were in France (and Italy) during WWI. Since I am at work right now, I don't have the exact titles or authors with me right now. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted June 10, 2009 Hi, There probably were not many that flew for the 3rd army. Is there a list of just the 3rd army pilots? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nack Posted June 10, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 10, 2009 I found the black light but its not quit bright enough. I will probably have to remove the tag to read it. Bill Yikes - I don't know that you want to do that. If you are successful in making out a name, you've accomplished little as now there is an element of doubt as to whether the tag was added to "tart up" the group, as our Brit compatriots would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted June 10, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 10, 2009 Hi, There probably were not many that flew for the 3rd army. Is there a list of just the 3rd army pilots? Bill Bill- Back then it was the Army of Occupation - made up of a lot of people. And, I would imagine there were a good number of pilots that you'd have to sift through to identify this guy. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted June 10, 2009 Was there a 76th Aero Squadron? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 11, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 11, 2009 Was there a 76th Aero Squadron? Bill Bill: Here's a link to an excellent resource on the internet that's a history of all WW1 aviation squadrons. It also has a history of the 3rd Army aviation as well. Dave http://www.footnote.com/browse.php#Emergin...0-1920|14539621 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted June 11, 2009 Bill: Here's a link to an excellent resource on the internet that's a history of all WW1 aviation squadrons. It also has a history of the 3rd Army aviation as well. Dave http://www.footnote.com/browse.php#Emergin...0-1920|14539621 THANKS DAVE! Do you know what section the info on the 3rd army air service is? I have gotten to page 25 so far. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted June 11, 2009 I can not believe it but I did not even think to look on the belts for the name. On one of the officers belts the guys name is there plane as day. It looks like A.E. Silcoil or Silcoit or Silcott? Anyway here is a picture of the name. Any one have any info on him? Thanks, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo Posted June 11, 2009 Share #21 Posted June 11, 2009 Hi Guys, I do not intend to split the grouping up. The grouping came out of eastern Kentucky through a picker I know. The star is bronze I think not silver. I can not find my black light or I would have tried to look at the tag that way. Thanks and talk soon, Bill Bill, I live in Eastern Kentucky. If you can give me a town or city, perhaps I could go and look for some information on this guy. Can't promise anything, but I'll see what I can do. Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share #22 Posted June 11, 2009 Bill, I live in Eastern Kentucky. If you can give me a town or city, perhaps I could go and look for some information on this guy. Can't promise anything, but I'll see what I can do. Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannow Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share #23 Posted June 11, 2009 looks like there was a A.E. Silcott in Fayette County, Ohio Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Posted June 11, 2009 Share #24 Posted June 11, 2009 I have a listing for Silcott, Arthur E., RMA, 2/Lt. from Catlettsburg, KY. The list is the J.J. Smith "List of Airplane Pilot Officers of the United States Army Air Service Commissioned Prior to 12 November 1918". He is also listed in J.J. Sloan's book "Wings of Honor" on p. 387: HE WAS POSTED TO THE 85th AERO SQUADRON FROM 10/24/18 TILL THE ARMISTICE. CONGRATULATIONS MY MAN YOU HAVE A COMBAT SQUADRON AVIATOR GROUPING!!!!! SO I WOULD NOT SWEAT THE CONDITION!!!!!! Charlie W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted June 11, 2009 Share #25 Posted June 11, 2009 I have a listing for Silcott, Arthur E., RMA, 2/Lt. from Catlettsburg, KY. The list is the J.J. Smith "List of Airplane Pilot Officers of the United States Army Air Service Commissioned Prior to 12 November 1918". He is also listed in J.J. Sloan's book "Wings of Honor" on p. 387: HE WAS POSTED TO THE 85th AERO SQUADRON FROM 10/24/18 TILL THE ARMISTICE. CONGRATULATIONS MY MAN YOU HAVE A COMBAT SQUADRON AVIATOR GROUPING!!!!! SO I WOULD NOT SWEAT THE CONDITION!!!!!! Charlie W. Great information Charlie. I agree about condition. For me, I would rather have a ragged and moth-eaten IDENTIFIED combat tunic than a mint unattributed example any day of the week, and twice on Sunday... I am very glad for this member, these things grab hold of you and never let go. As far as value, I would say that it just went up significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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