Pueblo Incident - USS Pueblo

[JimmCapp]

These are pretty much run of the mill CPO rates given to me by my second cousin Francis Ginther when I was a kid.
He was captured onboard the USS Pueblo in 1968 by the North Koreans in what would later be known as the "Pueblo incident."
There was later a movie and a couple documentaries about what happened - the torture and resistance of these men.
My favorite was the famous "Hawaian good luck sign" they used.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Giving_The_Finger_to_North_Korea

http://www.usspueblo.org/v2f/captivity/goodluck.html

Also this story I thought was very entertaining:

http://www.usspueblo.org/v2f/captivity/fly.html

Just thought I'd post them for some of the younger members of the forum who may not have heard about it.
Maybe it will pique their interest enough to google it.

[JimmCapp]

I'm not up on navy ranks, I think it's actually 1st class petty officer CT1.

[sigsaye]

I'm not up on navy ranks, I think it's actually 1st class petty officer CT1.

Those are genearic First Class PO crows for the blue working jacket. No rate, just plain.

 

Steve Hesson

[gwb123]

It's the history that makes the object interesting and valuable. Great job documenting these.

 

Unfortunately I can say that I remember the Pueblo Incident very well. Aside from the danger to her crew and the loss of the ship, it was a major embarassment for the US Military on several levels.

[sigsaye]

It's the history that makes the object interesting and valuable. Great job documenting these.

 

Unfortunately I can say that I remember the Pueblo Incident very well. Aside from the danger to her crew and the loss of the ship, it was a major embarassment for the US Military on several levels.

I agree with you 100%. My fathers dress blues are priceless to me, but of no real interest to others (except that he wore them in 1967 and they have sewn chevron insignia).

 

With these, I was simply clarifing what the insignia were. They are not CPO crows and not specificaly CT1 crows, although they may have belonged to a CPO and a CT1. These are plain PO1 for a blue working jacket of the era. Very nise ones too

 

As a side note, my father was an Electricians Mate on a repair ship. he had done some emergency motor rewinds for the Pueblo and they gave him a new foul weather jacket (deck jacket) as a bonus for getting the job done in a very short time. It had USS Pueblo stenciled on the back. At the time it was just a nice new jacket, which was rare in the fleet at that time. He wore it until he retired and then passed it down to one of his guys when he retired. A year later the Pueblo was captured and went into history.

 

Steve Hesson

[dpcsdan]

I agree with you 100%. My fathers dress blues are priceless to me, but of no real interest to others (except that he wore them in 1967 and they have sewn chevron insignia).

 

With these, I was simply clarifing what the insignia were. They are not CPO crows and not specificaly CT1 crows, although they may have belonged to a CPO and a CT1. These are plain PO1 for a blue working jacket of the era. Very nise ones too

 

As a side note, my father was an Electricians Mate on a repair ship. he had done some emergency motor rewinds for the Pueblo and they gave him a new foul weather jacket (deck jacket) as a bonus for getting the job done in a very short time. It had USS Pueblo stenciled on the back. At the time it was just a nice new jacket, which was rare in the fleet at that time. He wore it until he retired and then passed it down to one of his guys when he retired. A year later the Pueblo was captured and went into history.

 

Steve Hesson

Steve,

I remember when scoring a nice foul weather jacket was a big deal...

I was on active duty when the Pueblo was seized and not understanding politics and other realities at the time I couldn't believe we didn't rush in and get the crew and the ship back. I felt the same way about the USS Liberty incident, I never bought the cover story. That incident still bums me out today.

-dan

 

-dan

[Bearmon]

Steve,

I remember when scoring a nice foul weather jacket was a big deal...

I was on active duty when the Pueblo was seized and not understanding politics and other realities at the time I couldn't believe we didn't rush in and get the crew and the ship back. I felt the same way about the USS Liberty incident, I never bought the cover story. That incident still bums me out today.

-dan

 

-dan

 

Yeah the Peublo and the Liberty were both dark days in the navy's history.

I picked this up a while ago and think its kindo rare, I haven't seen to many of them.

 

[F50lrrp]

In 1969, while I was stationed at Fort Ord as the Special Forces Recruiter, I dated a young school teacher named Joan. She and her Father had me over to dinner one night and the conversation turned to the Pueblo incident. Joan's Dad asked me what I thought of the entire episode and I replied that I didn't blame Commander Bucher for surrendering his ship.

 

I went on to say that given the fact that the ship was Navy, it probably had .50 caliber machineguns that were probably rusty and didn't have the head space or timing set. Joan's Father laughed and we changed the subject.

 

The next time that I went out with Joan, she said that I hadn't made a big hit with her Father. It seems that her Father was Admiral Galloway who had ordered Commander Bucher and his ship on the intelligence mission.

[gwb123]

In 1969, while I was stationed at Fort Ord as the Special Forces Recruiter, I dated a young school teacher named Joan. She and her Father had me over to dinner one night and the conversation turned to the Pueblo incident. Joan's Dad asked me what I thought of the entire episode and I replied that I didn't blame Commander Bucher for surrendering his ship.

 

I went on to say that given the fact that the ship was Navy, it probably had .50 caliber machineguns that were probably rusty and didn't have the head space or timing set. Joan's Father laughed and we changed the subject.

 

The next time that I went out with Joan, she said that I hadn't made a big hit with her Father. It seems that her Father was Admiral Galloway who had ordered Commander Bucher and his ship on the intelligence mission.

 

Ooops!

 

As I recall one of the many problems on that night was that the ships .50 caliber machine guns had been covered over by tarps that had been showered with sea water and subsequently frozen. Commander Bucher realized he was outgunned from the start.

[topdcnut]

Lets hear from anyone who has seen rusty weapons on a naval vessel.....

[dpcsdan]

Lets hear from anyone who has seen rusty weapons on a naval vessel.....

Not me, but I have seen frozen gun mounts and gun covers.

[Brian Keith]

Ooops!

 

As I recall one of the many problems on that night was that the ships .50 caliber machine guns had been covered over by tarps that had been showered with sea water and subsequently frozen. Commander Bucher realized he was outgunned from the start.

 

 

He also had dead and seriously wounded on his deck and that puney .50 wouldn't have helped. It probably wouldn't have reached the ships that had him under fire. He was able to get much of the electronic equipment damaged or destroyed pryor to being boarded. One of the problems was that the destruction method was by ax, there was no internal charges in the electronics.

 

We have the "uniform" on exhibit, of one of the survivors when they were repatraited nearly a year later. It is quite a compelling story. I'll make an effort to photograph and post it some time. The case it is in is hard to access. That ship should not have been left so alone in potentially hostile waters.

BKW

[sigsaye]

Lets hear from anyone who has seen rusty weapons on a naval vessel.....

I kinda chuckled at that one too Never rusty, always properly spaced. Frozen covers? Yep, more than a few times. Cutting through frozen line or a frozen painted canvas cover is no easy trick either.

 

Steve Hesson

[F50lrrp]

In all fairness, the only Navy vessels that I had been exposed to were a Swift Boat that took my recon team on a mission to the Secret Zone south of Nha Trang and Mobile Riverine Forces in the Rung Sat Zone and on the Saigon River. Most of these vessels had at least suface rust on their guns.

[Salvage Sailor]

Just a personal observation regarding armament on USN Auxillary ships.

 

During the 'missile age' of the 1960's to 1980's, much of the main armament was removed from Auxillary ships. 3" guns, 40mm & 20mm guns were removed from tubs and mounts. Many of the tubs were removed also or replaced by Searchlights or 'Big Eyes' binoculars. This left these WWII era ships with .50 stanchion mounted machine guns as their main armament. In the case of the Salvage ships I served on, the 40mm & 20mm guns were removed, and we were given two (2) single 20mm guns that were previously wing mounted aircraft cannons. Being air cooled, they worked fine when zipping along at 400+ mph, but would notoriously jam after firing the second or third round from a fixed mount. As close in defensive weapons, they were useless, especially against aircraft or gunboats. We only had (2) .50 calibers & small arms (M60's, M-14's etc)

 

The Pueblo and Liberty incidents were very much on our minds, especially as we frequently steamed the China Sea & Sea of Japan and Korean waters. We were too 'old and slow' to steam with task forces, so we independently steamed just like the Pueblo. Our standing orders in case of attack were to burn & dump everything over the side in weighted burn bags, and call for help. If war had broken out, we were supposed to 'go passive' and turn off all of our radars and transmitters, pick a direction, and just 'get lost' in the big pond. We even had deception gear for this in the signal lockers - flags of many other nations we were to fly while making our escape. The enemy was just supposed to ignore the big white numbers painted on our bow.

 

All of these policies were shown to be bogus around 1980 when a series of incidents clearly proved that small, fast, heavily armed craft could run rings around our ships, including destroyers & cruisers, if they just got in close. No guns could be brought to bear upon them. This is what prompted the rearming of our ships with deck guns smaller than 5" batteries.

 

There ya go.....

[Sgt. Boghots]

 

 

NOT A SPECK OF RUST.

 

 

USS New Jersey - Lebanon, 1983 - 1984.

 

 

Best regards,

Paul

[KaosDad]

First - I am going to install a never ending song loop in your heads: "It's a small world after all . . ."

 

My Dad was on the Board of Inquery for the Pueblo Incident. If there is any interest I'll see if he wrote about it in his memoirs.

[Sgt. Boghots]

I for one, would be very interested in reading what your Dad may have written regarding the Pueblo incident.

 

Best regards,

Paul Walker

Klamath Falls, Oregon

[Chariot Whiskey]

In 1968, when the Pueblo was captured I was the First Lt. of the Pueblo's sister ship USS Palm Beach AGER-3. Whereas the Banner (AGER-1) and Pueblo were Pacific Fleet ships, we were Atlantic Fleet, homeported in Little Creek, VA. Later that spring we received two twin 20mm's from the Coast Guard in Baltimore. They were installed before we deployed to Holy Loch to do whatever it was we did. Topside weight limitations allowed us to carry only two ready ammunition lockers for the 20mm's, giving us about 60 seconds of fire. We also had four 50 calibers, ten Thompsons, seven 45's and one carbine. I think we were the only[?] ship in the Navy at the time to have a "Repel Borders" drill!

 

The North and Norwegian Seas can be mighty rough in a 700 ton, 177 foot long ship!

 

It had been planned to homeport us in Rosyth, Scotland but after the Pueblo incident that was cancelled and the two remaining AGER's decommissioned soon afterwards.

 

Interesting note- the Palm Beach was sold and ended up carrying bananas in the Caribbean, renamed the Oro Verde. She ran aground in the Cayman Islands and was sunk as a diving site. And she's still there- Google it and see!

 

Bob Anderson

[Tonomachi]

Here is a cut edge USS Pueblo shoulder tab which I picked up some time ago for a dollar. It sometimes pays to dig in those boxes full of patches that sellers feel aren't worth anything.

[Sgt. Boghots]

In 1968, when the Pueblo was captured I was the First Lt. of the Pueblo's sister ship USS Palm Beach AGER-3. Whereas the Banner (AGER-1) and Pueblo were Pacific Fleet ships, we were Atlantic Fleet, homeported in Little Creek, VA. Later that spring we received two twin 20mm's from the Coast Guard in Baltimore. They were installed before we deployed to Holy Loch to do whatever it was we did. Topside weight limitations allowed us to carry only two ready ammunition lockers for the 20mm's, giving us about 60 seconds of fire. We also had four 50 calibers, ten Thompsons, seven 45's and one carbine. I think we were the only[?] ship in the Navy at the time to have a "Repel Borders" drill!

 

The North and Norwegian Seas can be mighty rough in a 700 ton, 177 foot long ship!

 

It had been planned to homeport us in Rosyth, Scotland but after the Pueblo incident that was cancelled and the two remaining AGER's decommissioned soon afterwards.

 

Interesting note- the Palm Beach was sold and ended up carrying bananas in the Caribbean, renamed the Oro Verde. She ran aground in the Cayman Islands and was sunk as a diving site. And she's still there- Google it and see!

 

Bob Anderson

 

Very interesting information, Bob.

 

Welcome aboard, and best regards,

Paul Walker

Klamath Falls, Oregon

[CVA19]

Interestingly, I was at a reunion with the XO of the Pueblo, Ed Murphy, in St. Louis last month. Murphy considered Bucher's actions "inappropriate" and even wrote a book after being released from captivity. So, there was no agreement between the Capt. and XO on what happened and should have happened. I did not discuss the Pueblo with Murphy, but the subject did come up with a Maj. Gen. also at the reunion (Vietnam vet) who thought the whole thing was handled badly by Bucher and that he should have been court martialed. Apparently, they did have the ability to destroy sensitive equipment, etc. (thermite?).

[Sgt. Boghots]

Interestingly, I was at a reunion with the XO of the Pueblo, Ed Murphy, in St. Louis last month. Murphy considered Bucher's actions "inappropriate" and even wrote a book after being released from captivity. So, there was no agreement between the Capt. and XO on what happened and should have happened. I did not discuss the Pueblo with Murphy, but the subject did come up with a Maj. Gen. also at the reunion (Vietnam vet) who thought the whole thing was handled badly by Bucher and that he should have been court martialed. Apparently, they did have the ability to destroy sensitive equipment, etc. (thermite?).

 

When I went to Radioman "A" school at the beginning of 1973, the extent of intelligence compromised during the Pueblo incident was a hot topic. During the next three years while serving in VP (antisubmarine patrol) squadrons and on a Destroyer Escort, the capture of the Pueblo and the proper procedures for emergency destruction of classified material were still at the forefront. - As I recall the overall emphasis by those in positions of authority, the consensus seemed to be that Bucher and the crew dropped the ball. - But it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that being there, and talking about being there, were two different things.

 

While there's isn't much doubt or debate about how devastating the compromise of Pueblo's classified material was, from what I've read and learned over the years I think there was too much of a rush to judgement regarding the conduct of the captain & crew during the incident.

 

Now let me be clear, I would have to put a fair amount of weight in what the X.O.'s opinion is, and maybe that would change my opinion too.

 

From the time of Pueblo's capture when I was still in high school, I was very interested in reading all I could about it. Duane Hodges, who was the Pueblo's KIA during the incident, was from Creswell, Oregon, about ten miles from my home. So during and after the incident, there was a ton of local coverage in the news, and awareness in the community. And as it came to pass, one of my uncles was a mustang Lt. Col. in the army, and was involved in the Pueblo crew's release while he was serving in Korea.

 

For the skipper's perspective, I highly recomend reading the book "My Story", written by Commander Bucher. -

 

"IF", as maintained by the captain and by the U.S. government the ship was in fact still in international waters, then I believe there wasn't adequate back up for the Pueblo readily available when they were attacked, and that the ship wasn't properly equipped with adequate destruction capabilities suitable for the nature of its mission and potential for capture. Due to the covert nature of an AGR's mission, I fully realize that you don't "just happen" to have other vessels operating near them, or you're compromising the nature of their presence from the beginning. So there's a fine line between protection, and compromise. But the actual MISSION of a vessel like an AGR, whether it was U.S., Soviet, or whomever, wasn't much of a "secret" to anyone's military or intelligence forces. - But the intelligence on board, and the extent of the vessels ability to gather intelligence was classified Top Secret, and beyond.

 

Both the direct and indirrect costs in lives and effectiveness to United States as a result of the Pueblo incident, may never be fully known.

 

Best regards,

Paul

[Chariot Whiskey]

When I went to Radioman "A" school at the beginning of 1973, the extent of intelligence compromised during the Pueblo incident was a hot topic. During the next three years while serving in VP (antisubmarine patrol) squadrons and on a Destroyer Escort, the capture of the Pueblo and the proper procedures for emergency destruction of classified material were still at the forefront. - As I recall the overall emphasis by those in positions of authority, the consensus seemed to be that Bucher and the crew dropped the ball. - But it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that being there, and talking about being there, were two different things.

 

While there's isn't much doubt or debate about how devastating the compromise of Pueblo's classified material was, from what I've read and learned over the years I think there was too much of a rush to judgement regarding the conduct of the captain & crew during the incident.

 

Now let me be clear, I would have to put a fair amount of weight in what the X.O.'s opinion is, and maybe that would change my opinion too.

 

From the time of Pueblo's capture when I was still in high school, I was very interested in reading all I could about it. Duane Hodges, who was the Pueblo's KIA during the incident, was from Creswell, Oregon, about ten miles from my home. So during and after the incident, there was a ton of local coverage in the news, and awareness in the community. And as it came to pass, one of my uncles was a mustang Lt. Col. in the army, and was involved in the Pueblo crew's release while he was serving in Korea.

 

For the skipper's perspective, I highly recomend reading the book "My Story", written by Commander Bucher. -

 

"IF", as maintained by the captain and by the U.S. government the ship was in fact still in international waters, then I believe there wasn't adequate back up for the Pueblo readily available when they were attacked, and that the ship wasn't properly equipped with adequate destruction capabilities suitable for the nature of its mission and potential for capture. Due to the covert nature of an AGR's mission, I fully realize that you don't "just happen" to have other vessels operating near them, or you're compromising the nature of their presence from the beginning. So there's a fine line between protection, and compromise. But the actual MISSION of a vessel like an AGR, whether it was U.S., Soviet, or whomever, wasn't much of a "secret" to anyone's military or intelligence forces. - But the intelligence on board, and the extent of the vessels ability to gather intelligence was classified Top Secret, and beyond.

 

Both the direct and indirrect costs in lives and effectiveness to United States as a result of the Pueblo incident, may never be fully known.

 

Best regards,

Paul

 

 

At the time of the Pueblo's capture there was, I recall, a general feeling on the Palm Beach that we would never be taken as the Pueblo was. But up in the Arctic Ocean support was even farther away then it had been for the Pueblo.

Fortunately it never became an issue as the Russians had too many of their "trawlers" out to risk retribution. However the CT's very frequently reported Russian air and surface fire control radar locked on us!

 

My GQ station was in charge of Damage Control. My station was in the forward crew's berthing space where their was a WTD and a ladder from the main deck. I remember thinking that I could get seven bad guys with my .45 if the Russians tried anything. Ahhh youth!

 

A lot of time and effort was spent after the Pueblo was captured in devising destruction and even scuttle ship gear. But the nature of the intelligence spaces and the fact that ships are hard to sink, plus the fact that the days of AGER's were clearly limited, led to nothing being done.

 

Bob

 

I was on the ship's crew side of the intelligence business. I had Top Secret- Crypto clearance but that wasn't enough to get me into the "Sod Hut" or Spook Space as we called it.

[SFCUSARET]

In 1971 While stationed on the Air Base in Saigon with the Special Communications Security Detachment (Crypto Maintenance Support For Foreign Troops, ARVN, Korea, Australian and New Zieland) we had the following stenciled all over the place "Remember The Pueblo" . The unit was visited by a Navy Lt Commander and he blew his stack when he saw that. Shortly after he left we received a call from our CO and we were instructed to remove the Pueblo stenciles.

 

We used the 100% Deet Mosquito repellent to remove the paint. That stuff would melt any paint it come I contact with.