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Another WW2 ship lost


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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_sinking_the_vandenberg

http://www.bigshipwrecks.com/more.htm thumbdown.gif

 

What a history

 

1943: built by Kaiser shipyard in Richmond, California

 

1944-46: USS Gen. Harry Taylor commissioned as a troop transport carrying personnel to Atlantic and Pacific Ports. After the surrender of Japan, she was the first ship to return to New York Harbor

 

1946-50: USAT General Harry Taylor served Army Transport Service, bringing home the troops.

 

1950-57: USNS General Harry Taylor served the Military Sealift Command, carrying refugees and displaced persons from Europe to America and Australia.

 

1958: Decommissioned and placed in reserve.

 

1961: Acquired by the Air force and completely refitted to serve a missile tracking ship.

 

1963: Re-commissioned as USAFS Gen Hoyt S Vandenberg.

 

!964-1983: USNS General Hoyt S. Vandenberg re-acquired by the Navy and continued her mission tracking US and Russian missile launches, and launches of the early space program.

 

1983: retired and transferred to the Maritime Administration Reserve “Ghost Fleet” on the James River in Virginia.

 

1996: Used in the Universal Pictures movie, “Virus” (released 1999) starring Donald Sutherland and Jamie Lee Curtis.

 

It pains me to think how a group so gleefully wanted to sink this ship. I am sure a group somewhere would love to have had this ship. It would have been nice to have her near the Intrepid since she was the first ship to return to New York harbor after the war.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_sinking_the_vandenberg

http://www.bigshipwrecks.com/more.htm thumbdown.gif

 

What a history

 

1943: built by Kaiser shipyard in Richmond, California

 

1944-46: USS Gen. Harry Taylor commissioned as a troop transport carrying personnel to Atlantic and Pacific Ports. After the surrender of Japan, she was the first ship to return to New York Harbor

 

1946-50: USAT General Harry Taylor served Army Transport Service, bringing home the troops.

 

1950-57: USNS General Harry Taylor served the Military Sealift Command, carrying refugees and displaced persons from Europe to America and Australia.

 

1958: Decommissioned and placed in reserve.

 

1961: Acquired by the Air force and completely refitted to serve a missile tracking ship.

 

1963: Re-commissioned as USAFS Gen Hoyt S Vandenberg.

 

!964-1983: USNS General Hoyt S. Vandenberg re-acquired by the Navy and continued her mission tracking US and Russian missile launches, and launches of the early space program.

 

1983: retired and transferred to the Maritime Administration Reserve “Ghost Fleet” on the James River in Virginia.

 

1996: Used in the Universal Pictures movie, “Virus” (released 1999) starring Donald Sutherland and Jamie Lee Curtis.

 

It pains me to think how a group so gleefully wanted to sink this ship. I am sure a group somewhere would love to have had this ship. It would have been nice to have her near the Intrepid since she was the first ship to return to New York harbor after the war.

 

I'm kinda luke-warm on a ship like this. While it was a long-serving vet, it was heavily modified from it's original role. I would rather a group come to the rescue of an original destroyer such as the USS John Rodgers which is a stock Fletcher Class ship in the Mexican Navy which is in dire straights and is in risk of being scrapped. Now that is a crime in my book! If I had the money, this ship would be my first priority!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_Rodgers_(DD-574)

post-3043-1243440405.jpg

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Cobrahistorian
I'm kinda luke-warm on a ship like this. While it was a long-serving vet, it was heavily modified from it's original role. I would rather a group come to the rescue of an original destroyer such as the USS John Rodgers which is a stock Fletcher Class ship in the Mexican Navy which is in dire straights and is in risk of being scrapped. Now that is a crime in my book! If I had the money, this ship would be my first priority!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_Rodgers_(DD-574)

 

 

Any further news on the Rodgers? Last I could find was July 2008.

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Any further news on the Rodgers? Last I could find was July 2008.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

"The ship was sold as-is to Mexico 19 Aug 1970. She served in the Mexican Navy as BAM Cuitlahuac, named after Cuitláhuac (?-1520), the second-to-last Aztec emperor of the Mexica.

 

Cuitlahuac was retired by the Mexican Navy 16 July 2001, bringing to an end the 60-year history of the Fletcher-class ships. [1]

 

Rodgers was acquired by Beauchamp Tower Corp., a small non-profit foundation based in Florida, in late 2006 with the stated purpose of returning her to the states as a museum in Mobile, Alabama. As of February 2009 Rodgers was moored unattended at a granary pier in Mexico and is subject to nearly $1 million in liens and penalties for unpaid towing and wharfage. The Mexican Government in 2008 announced plans to seize and dispose of her as a derelict. [1]"

 

Seriously, if you ever see a stock WWII ship like this, it deserves a serious shot at preservation back in the states where it belongs. There are some more shots of it here. Like I said, if I had the money, this ship would be mine in a heartbeat, asbestos and all.

 

http://www.btconline.us/mt/2006/08/a_good_look_aro.html

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread.... ;(

post-3043-1243444608.jpg

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Cobrahistorian
From Wikipedia:

 

"The ship was sold as-is to Mexico 19 Aug 1970. She served in the Mexican Navy as BAM Cuitlahuac, named after Cuitláhuac (?-1520), the second-to-last Aztec emperor of the Mexica.

 

Cuitlahuac was retired by the Mexican Navy 16 July 2001, bringing to an end the 60-year history of the Fletcher-class ships. [1]

 

Rodgers was acquired by Beauchamp Tower Corp., a small non-profit foundation based in Florida, in late 2006 with the stated purpose of returning her to the states as a museum in Mobile, Alabama. As of February 2009 Rodgers was moored unattended at a granary pier in Mexico and is subject to nearly $1 million in liens and penalties for unpaid towing and wharfage. The Mexican Government in 2008 announced plans to seize and dispose of her as a derelict. [1]"

 

Seriously, if you ever see a stock WWII ship like this, it deserves a serious shot at preservation back in the states where it belongs. There are some more shots of it here. Like I said, if I had the money, this ship would be mine in a heartbeat, asbestos and all.

 

http://www.btconline.us/mt/2006/08/a_good_look_aro.html

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread.... ;(

 

Already got some people working on it. Don't know if anything'll happen, but hell, we might be able to do something to get her back here!

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I'm kinda luke-warm on a ship like this. While it was a long-serving vet, it was heavily modified from it's original role. I would rather a group come to the rescue of an original destroyer such as the USS John Rodgers which is a stock Fletcher Class ship in the Mexican Navy which is in dire straights and is in risk of being scrapped. Now that is a crime in my book! If I had the money, this ship would be my first priority!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_Rodgers_(DD-574)

 

Ski,

 

I honestly would be more interested in her history with the USAF. After all I am just learning about the Army's Navy, thanks to those ATS Capt's eagles I found. Now I find out the Air Force also had (has?) a Navy (it does explain those McPeak era silver rank stripes on the cuff though). Seriously though I remember the Vandenberg at Pearl Harbor as a kid, my dad got me close but even he could not get aboard. The ship had a big history with the Space Program as a tracker, I think it was used to track Appollo flights in the mid-Pacific where there was a gap due to Earth curvature.

 

So what do, or did, USAFS crew uniforms look like?

 

Timo

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I just looked at the photos that were taken inside of her and she looks like she is in fantastic shape!!!!!! I was totally expected her to be all torned up inside.........she must be saved.

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brandon_rss18

Thank GOD my beautiful TEXAS was saved when she was, I say mine because I only live about 15 minutes from her. ;) I would LOVE to see more ships restored and taken care of like she is, Im just glad that the Texas State Park takes old military items under their wings here. I hope that ship can be saved along with as many others.

 

http://www.usstexasbb35.com/

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General Apathy
From Wikipedia:

 

"The ship was sold as-is to Mexico 19 Aug 1970. She served in the Mexican Navy as BAM Cuitlahuac, named after Cuitláhuac (?-1520), the second-to-last Aztec emperor of the Mexica.

 

Cuitlahuac was retired by the Mexican Navy 16 July 2001, bringing to an end the 60-year history of the Fletcher-class ships. [1]

 

Rodgers was acquired by Beauchamp Tower Corp., a small non-profit foundation based in Florida, in late 2006 with the stated purpose of returning her to the states as a museum in Mobile, Alabama. As of February 2009 Rodgers was moored unattended at a granary pier in Mexico and is subject to nearly $1 million in liens and penalties for unpaid towing and wharfage. The Mexican Government in 2008 announced plans to seize and dispose of her as a derelict. [1]"

 

Seriously, if you ever see a stock WWII ship like this, it deserves a serious shot at preservation back in the states where it belongs. There are some more shots of it here. Like I said, if I had the money, this ship would be mine in a heartbeat, asbestos and all.

 

http://www.btconline.us/mt/2006/08/a_good_look_aro.html

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread.... ;(

 

Hi Teamski, that's a good looking ship in it's present condition, hope you have started something here.

 

Cheers ( Lewis )

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Well, with so many of the Fletchers, Simms and Gearing class destroyers heavily modified by FRAM I and FRAM II mods, the Rodgers is a true rarity among existing destroyers, which makes it even harder to comprehend it's possible loss. It makes me sick just thinking about it. If I am correct, I believe the Rodgers is the only early round-bridged Fletcher in existance. All of the others are the later square bridged versions, which make it even more important.

 

Some great outside photos here:

 

http://www.btconline.us/mt/2006/12/

 

-Ski

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Cobrahistorian

I'm working on a few things. A very good friend of mine is the curator at the USS New Jersey and between the two of us, we have several contacts in the US Historic Ship community. If she's gettable, we'll figure out how.

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I'm working on a few things. A very good friend of mine is the curator at the USS New Jersey and between the two of us, we have several contacts in the US Historic Ship community. If she's gettable, we'll figure out how.

 

:blink:

 

And the New Jersey is about an hour away. If you could, PM me if you guys get anywhere and what I can do to help..... To save that ship would be a true tribute to the tin can sailors of WWII. That ship is about as WWII as you can get for a ship 60 years old. Thanks for the update. We can only hope, hey?

 

-Ski

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"It pains me to think how a group so gleefully wanted to sink this ship. I am sure a group somewhere would love to have had this ship. It would have been nice to have her near the Intrepid since she was the first ship to return to New York harbor after the war."

 

Getting back to the Vandenberg...

 

To me it represents the early space program rather than the WWII era. To me that would have been more than enough reason to preserve her. It represents a very unique period of histrory, and very little of that has been preserved.

 

Unfortunately memorial ships are incredibly expensive to maintain. They are going to be far and few in between.

 

If the choice is between sinking her and have her completely broken up for scrap, I think coral reef is the better option.

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willysmb44

The bottom line here is that ship preservation is astronomically expensive, far in excess of almost everyone’s reach. When you consider the museum ships out there who barely are able to stay afloat (literally), you’re only left wondering why so many were saved at all.

Sure, it’s painful to know what we lost. It kills me to know I saw the USS Cabot (the last existing light carrier from WW2) moored at New Orleans in 1995 and that it’s gone now.

I’ve talked with people at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, and they tell me that at least one carrier there (the USS Ranger) has been earmarked for preservation but as one of them told me, “I can’t imagine there’s a public who would visit a carrier that didn’t serve in a popular war.” They seriously doubt that the group from Portland Oregon who want to put the Ranger there as a museum have the means to do that. Remember, this is the same city that scrapped the Spanish-American war battleship Oregon for WW2 (and then it turned out they only butchered it for no real reason), causing a serious PR nightmare for the city. I do know that the USS Hornet at Alameda was having substantial cash issues and for a while it was closed to the public (I know because I was ticked when I got there and couldn’t go beyond the fence).

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The bottom line here is that ship preservation is astronomically expensive, far in excess of almost everyone’s reach. When you consider the museum ships out there who barely are able to stay afloat (literally), you’re only left wondering why so many were saved at all.

Sure, it’s painful to know what we lost. It kills me to know I saw the USS Cabot (the last existing light carrier from WW2) moored at New Orleans in 1995 and that it’s gone now.

I’ve talked with people at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, and they tell me that at least one carrier there (the USS Ranger) has been earmarked for preservation but as one of them told me, “I can’t imagine there’s a public who would visit a carrier that didn’t serve in a popular war.” They seriously doubt that the group from Portland Oregon who want to put the Ranger there as a museum have the means to do that. Remember, this is the same city that scrapped the Spanish-American war battleship Oregon for WW2 (and then it turned out they only butchered it for no real reason), causing a serious PR nightmare for the city. I do know that the USS Hornet at Alameda was having substantial cash issues and for a while it was closed to the public (I know because I was ticked when I got there and couldn’t go beyond the fence).

 

I agree it isn't cheap, but you mention some pretty big ships. A destroyer, while expensive, is a fraction of the size of a carrier and doesn't require a large mooring berth to park it.

 

-Ski

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  • 3 weeks later...
I'm working on a few things. A very good friend of mine is the curator at the USS New Jersey and between the two of us, we have several contacts in the US Historic Ship community. If she's gettable, we'll figure out how.

 

Did you make any headway?

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  • 4 months later...

To add a comment about ship preservation...it is truly astronomically expensive (as noted above) and a full-time job. Not only do the historical groups that have ships have to have a constant stream of funding but they also have to have an almost inexhaustible labor pool. Remember that many of these ships, when active, had several dozen boatswain mates that spent the majority of their time (not on watch) preserving the ship continually. Steel and salt water (let alone salt air) don't go hand-in-hand! Even a ship as small as a destroyer requires full-time care and a LOT of money to maintain. Ships like battleships and aircraft carriers are mind-boggling expensive to maintain.

 

Dave

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Cobrahistorian
Did you make any headway?

 

 

Haven't really made any headway. I know things have been tough for the New Jersey, so Jason's been focused on that. Things for us have also been tight and we're just trying to make ends meet. I'd love to see her preserved, but I need to focus on our museum first!

 

Jon

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Haven't really made any headway. I know things have been tough for the New Jersey, so Jason's been focused on that. Things for us have also been tight and we're just trying to make ends meet. I'd love to see her preserved, but I need to focus on our museum first!

 

Jon

 

 

HMS Belfast, a WW2 cruiser which saw action on D-Day is moored on the River Thames in central London. It's a floating museum / tribute to those who sailed in her and the Royal Navy as a whole. Elsewhere here in the UK many other historic vessels are preserved at anchor. Maybe that's because we Brits have a very long history as a sea-going nation and take pride in preserving our maritime history? One of the most enjoyable days I spent on a visit to NYC was aboard USS Intrepid (pre re-fit) I've only just come in on this discussion so forgive me if I've missed or repeated something, but I feel very strongly that national governments should ensure the preservation of their nation's military history..on land, in the air, or at sea. Any funds raised by public donation should be the icing on the cake, not the deciding factor.

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

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Cobrahistorian
HMS Belfast, a WW2 cruiser which saw action on D-Day is moored on the River Thames in central London. It's a floating museum / tribute to those who sailed in her and the Royal Navy as a whole. Elsewhere here in the UK many other historic vessels are preserved at anchor. Maybe that's because we Brits have a very long history as a sea-going nation and take pride in preserving our maritime history? One of the most enjoyable days I spent on a visit to NYC was aboard USS Intrepid (pre re-fit) I've only just come in on this discussion so forgive me if I've missed or repeated something, but I feel very strongly that national governments should ensure the preservation of their nation's military history..on land, in the air, or at sea. Any funds raised by public donation should be the icing on the cake, not the deciding factor.

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

 

 

I agree with ya wholeheartedly. I started my museum career (nearly 20 years!) at the Intrepid in March 1991 and have always had a special place in my heart for her. There are a lot of US warships on display around the country. The USCGC Taney, USS Torsk and USS Constellation are the closest to where I am right now. They're all on exhibit in Baltimore's inner harbor. It is absolutely awesome seeing the Taney whenever I go visit my wife at work. The Taney is the only surviving ship that was at Pearl Harbor on 7 Dec 1941. She went on to serve in both oceans during WWII and Korea AND Vietnam, finally retiring in the mid 1980s.

 

There are four Essex class carriers on exhibit around the nation (Yorktown, Intrepid, Hornet and Lexington) and two of the four Iowa Class battleships. Unfortunately, we can't preserve them all, but ships like the Rodgers need to be preserved. It'd truly be a shame if we lost the LAST round-bridge Fletcher to the scrapper's torch.

 

Jon

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There are four Essex class carriers on exhibit around the nation (Yorktown, Intrepid, Hornet and Lexington) and two of the four Iowa Class battleships. Unfortunately, we can't preserve them all, but ships like the Rodgers need to be preserved. It'd truly be a shame if we lost the LAST round-bridge Fletcher to the scrapper's torch.

 

Jon

 

 

Makes me sick just thinking about it.

 

-Ski

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