JimmCapp Posted May 26, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 26, 2009 I've thought about trying to catalogue all the known WWII era manufacturers and machinery or variations associated with them. Just to get a comprehensive list of the active manufacturers would be a start, then to try to link known manufacturing styles to them would be great. I think this would go a long way to sorting out what was or wasn't available as well as why certain variations are more prevalent because of geographic location. I'm assuming that a manufacturer that was located closer to where the unit was stationed or formed would be well represented in specific variations. It would be interesting also to see what would cause variations on certain types of machines, whether it was the operator's habits, or machine calibration, bobin material, special custom runs, etc. I know some of these companies are still in operation, not sure how many employees from them are still around who may have these answers. Maybe some of these ideas have been published or posted elsewhere or before (ASMIC, books or older posts I have not run across here or on some other site), if so maybe some of our more knowledgeable members could point me in the right direction. To these ends, I have grabbed images from Ebay auctions when I see them that have the boxes and patch included. Of course the obvious danger in relying on these are unscrupulous sellers who link unrelated patches to a good period box label. Anyway is some of what I found, hope to see more info or links added soon First up STEIN-TOBLER COMPANY, INC Dated 6/29/1944 66th ID They still exist as Stein Tobler Embroidery Company out Union City, New Jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share #2 Posted May 26, 2009 another Stein-Tobler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted May 26, 2009 LEADING EMBROIDERY CO. LOCATION:unknown Ruptured Duck on Khaki twill 2 October 1945 XVI Corps 31 May 1944 CONGRESS EMBROIDERY WORKS LOCATION:unknown 10th Army 12 September 1944 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted May 26, 2009 The last one I have for now is: Schofler & Tieger LOCATION:unknown When I did a search for the company I came across a listing on Ebay for a 1943 dated patch catalog from them that went for $5.99, but that's it. 1943 WW II SCHOFLER & TIEGER MILITARY PATCH CATALOG (#290243705443), US $5.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted May 26, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 26, 2009 I've thought about trying to catalogue all the known WWII era manufacturers and machinery or variations associated with them.Just to get a comprehensive list of the active manufacturers would be a start, then to try to link known manufacturing styles to them would be great. I think this would go a long way to sorting out what was or wasn't available as well as why certain variations are more prevalent because of geographic location. I'm assuming that a manufacturer that was located closer to where the unit was stationed or formed would be well represented in specific variations. It would be interesting also to see what would cause variations on certain types of machines, whether it was the operator's habits, or machine calibration, bobin material, special custom runs, etc. I know some of these companies are still in operation, not sure how many employees from them are still around who may have these answers. Maybe some of these ideas have been published or posted elsewhere or before (ASMIC, books or older posts I have not run across here or on some other site), if so maybe some of our more knowledgeable members could point me in the right direction. To these ends, I have grabbed images from Ebay auctions when I see them that have the boxes and patch included. Of course the obvious danger in relying on these are unscrupulous sellers who link unrelated patches to a good period box label. Anyway is some of what I found, hope to see more info or links added soon First up STEIN-TOBLER COMPANY, INC Dated 6/29/1944 66th ID They still exist as Stein Tobler Embroidery Company out Union City, New Jersey. The 66th Division patch is 100% legit. The patch did come with the box. I personally witnessed the current seller buy them from the dealer. It was especially memorable because the original seller had bought them from the government as surplus. Sadly the original seller passed six months later of liver cancer. He hated children (me) and was very mean. I bought what I could, four boxes, that I will post photos of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted May 26, 2009 Share #6 Posted May 26, 2009 Interesting thread (no pun intended!) I have the same 16th Corps you do, but I do have these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted May 26, 2009 Share #7 Posted May 26, 2009 As pormised, pictures First....173rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted May 26, 2009 Share #8 Posted May 26, 2009 Air Transport Command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted May 26, 2009 Share #9 Posted May 26, 2009 Air Transport Label Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted May 26, 2009 Share #10 Posted May 26, 2009 Air Training Command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted May 26, 2009 As promised, pictures First....173rd I think this one may be a German Company OSWALD SCHICKER MFG. CO. 13 MARCH 1967 Couldn't find anything on these yet, but nice to see the list growing. Oscar Novelties Company June 21 1945 Chapman Emblem Co. 7/15/44 Interesting to see that both these vendors were filling an order for similar arcs at the same time: Ankara Mills 29 August 1945 Blum Lace & Embroidery Co. 29 August 1945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted May 26, 2009 Share #12 Posted May 26, 2009 During WW2 these companies were at the cities shown: Schofler Tieger Co - New York City Ankara Mills - Union City, New Jersey Oscar Novelties - Union City, New Jersey Congress Embroidery - Union City, New Jersey Leading Embroidery - North Bergen, New Jersey and Union City, New Jersey These locations are those listed in the Major War Supply Contracts listings. These only included contracts of $50,000 or more so not all companies are listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted May 26, 2009 Share #13 Posted May 26, 2009 This is the WAR CONTRACTS mentioned above. It was put on DVD in 2001 by Alec Tulkoff, the author of GRUNT GEAR. I'm not sure if it is still available or what Alec's current email or phone number is. You may have some luck searching the web or ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted May 27, 2009 Very cool, nice info. I'll have to see if I can get a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted May 27, 2009 Share #15 Posted May 27, 2009 During WW2 these companies were at the cities shown: Schofler Tieger Co - New York City Ankara Mills - Union City, New Jersey Oscar Novelties - Union City, New Jersey Congress Embroidery - Union City, New Jersey Leading Embroidery - North Bergen, New Jersey and Union City, New Jersey These locations are those listed in the Major War Supply Contracts listings. These only included contracts of $50,000 or more so not all companies are listed. It sure looks like we found the cradle of Patch civilization! -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted June 19, 2009 I found a couple of videos on You tube that show some Schiffli embroidery machines in action. "The design has to be drawn up six times larger than the finished embroidery; the operator traces around the design, pressing a trigger to make the needles shoot forwards to create the stitches. The slightest movement by the operator is mimicked, in miniature, by the thread on the cloth." They seem to explain why there are some big variations in patches, even from the same manufacturer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNcuQeuyac4...feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaYrBHo0i_A&NR=1 They say that machine is a smaller one with only 86 needles that was used to produce samples. Ironically, it's a German machine design that was used to make most of the SSI used in the second world war. The last link is the rest of the above quoted text from an article describing the machine shown in the videos. http://www.miriad.mmu.ac.uk/craftdesign/schiffli/about.php I wonder what the original pantographs they used for the patches looked like. Maybe they looked like some of the Institute of Heraldry drawings in the reference section. Those even have the cable (thread) colors and stitch count noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted June 19, 2009 There are actually two different machines in the videos above. The first is the 86 needle machine and the rest of the videos are of another. The guy in the second set of videos seems to have his technique down and it seems to be a more modern machine at least relative to the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCav Posted June 19, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 19, 2009 Wow!! Thanks for posting the videos - that is fascinating. My first thought (on the first video) was..... "Geez, that must have been a drag, standing there day after day; operating the pantograph". Very interesting contrast to what the Germans were using (c1950-1980s) to manufacture all those USAREUR unit pocket patches we collect. In 1971, I was at Grafenwohr for gunnery and ran by "that place at Graf" to get some nametapes made. I noticed they made pocket patches; and the lady (owner) was kind enough to give me a tour of the facility. It was nothing on the scale of the videos. Rather, it was a room with about 50 industrial grade sewing machines on a large table. Each machine was connected to a rudimentary "computer" by a large cable. An operator stood by, feeding a paper tape (with thousands of punched holes) into the computer. The lady explained that one tape stitched one color in the design. When that color was completed, another tape was loaded. Try to visualize a room full of sewing machines, thumping away at one patch; one color at a time. The good news was after the tour, I got to go through sever huge "trash" boxes and picked up about 200 pocket patches at 25 cents a piece. It seems the Schiffli was a lot more efficient, and used long before the apparatus in Graf. Thanks again for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted June 24, 2009 A few more companies with patch examples to add. First the 6th Airforce which the tag describes as the Caribbean Air Command by Vogue Embroidery. Interesting to see the variations in the backside of two patches from the same box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted June 24, 2009 Then Air Material Command by Kaufman. The backs look almost identical, but the front has an offset red center in the star on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmCapp Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share #21 Posted June 24, 2009 i noticed that several of the tags note U.S. Army Spec. No. 6-246-A.. Anyone have any idea what that is? :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 8, 2013 Share #22 Posted April 8, 2013 Thanks everyone who contributed to a fascinating and educational thread! Seeing all the variations that occur even using modern factory methods makes me more aware of the staggering amount of variety that can also be found in the theatre made pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbraun Posted November 10, 2013 Share #23 Posted November 10, 2013 It sure looks like we found the cradle of Patch civilization! -Ski There was a lot of Swiss immigrants in Union City, NJ who did embroidery work. My grandfather and his brothers owned and ran Congress Embroidery. Towards the end of the war there was a lot of consolidation in the industry and they sold the business in 1944. The brothers were Gus, Beda, Alfons and Joe… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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