drm2m Posted May 26, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 26, 2009 I had previously posted photos in the Firearms section of the forum of the Model 1841 "Mississippi" rifle with some photos of the bayonet and I decided to post photos of the bayonet in the Edged Weapons section. The saber bayonets for these rifles were of three types. The bayonet shown is a second type bayonet that is of a more common lug type. The alterations to the rifles to accomodate these bayonets were made at Harpers Ferry between 1855 and 1857, -----10,286 bayonets of this type were produced. The front barrel band was shortened and the bayonet lug was added. The markings on the bayonet. (Harper’s Ferry inspector’s markings?) The lower P is the "proved" mark. The upper initials “PB” are the inspector's initials. Two inspectors used the initials PB. PB- Pomeroy Booth 1862. (Possibly) The next photo shows the bayonet lug that was added to the barrel to accommodate the saber bayonet as these U.S. Model 1841 “Mississippi” rifles were not initially issued with bayonets. The period photos below show soldiers with what I think are Model 1841 rifles with saber bayonets. Two of the photos look as though they were taken in the same setting….I am not sure if it is the same soldier taken in a different pose? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsellati Posted May 26, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 26, 2009 That is a gorgeous bayonet and scabbard and an excellent presentation. I especially like the inclusion of period photographs showing a soldier with the same type bayonet attached to his rifle . Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drm2m Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted May 26, 2009 Thanks Tim, As time goes on I try to add some historic detail about a piece ...whether it is background that may be somewhat unique to the model or period photos. Some more photos of the bayonet and scabbard. The rifle. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11-Bull Posted May 26, 2009 Share #4 Posted May 26, 2009 Same setting, different soldier, photo angle, cannon positioning. At first I thought the second soldier was at a neighboring gun but merging the two pics in photoshop made me think it is the same gun with the photo shot at a different angle with the gun and caisson in the background moved to a slightly different position. Background- even at different angle note structure, especially chimney - the same. Soldier in 2nd pic- note NCO chevrons on sleeves, leggings (or high top boots, cannot tell) and fuller face compared to soldier 1st pic. Great pair of pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drm2m Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted May 26, 2009 Good eye 11-Bull. Thanks for your observations....and photo merge. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drm2m Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted May 27, 2009 Some more stuff on bayonets for the Model 1841 "Mississippi " rifle for they that may be interested. This is a book that I would recommend for they that have an interest in this stuff. The text below came from Reilly's book shown below. The photos below of the rare Snell bayonet and scabbard for the 1841 Mississippi rifle are owned by J & J Military antiques. http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/catpage....Type=saberbayus They have more C.W. saber bayonets as a dealer than I have seen in a long time. If you are interested in these kinds of pieces ...check out their web site. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunbarrel Posted May 27, 2009 Share #7 Posted May 27, 2009 Very nice! Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drm2m Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted May 28, 2009 Some more info regarding the different bayonet mountings on the Model 1841 "Mississippi" rifle. United State Rifle Model 1841 - Commonly referred to as the “Mississippi Rifle,” the Model 1841 rifle is regarded by many weapons experts as one of the most handsome of all percussion cap system firearms. The .54 caliber “Mississippi Rifle” owes its nickname to the successful use of this weapon by a Mississippi regiment under the command of Jefferson Davis in the Mexican War. During its period of manufacture and use, military authorities regarded the Model 1841 as the best of its type. The Harpers Ferry Armory manufactured a total of 25,296 of these rifles and contractors produced another 45,500. The walnut stock held a 33-inch round barrel which was fastened by two barrel bands. Brass mountings were finished bright while the barrel remained brown. The lock plate was casehardened, and the Model 1841, as with most rifles of this time period, had a large patch box located on the right side of the stock. Initially, the rifle was not fitted with a bayonet. However, beginning in 1855, the Model 1841 rifle was remanufactured to support a sword bayonet that was developed with three different fittings stud, ring, and socket. Just prior to the Civil War, 8,879 of these weapons were rebored to .58 caliber, improved rear sights were added, and their brass tipped ramrods were replaced by an all steel type with an exaggerated trumpet head profile. -------------------------------------------------------- The first US muzzle ring bayonet is considered to be the Model 1841 for the Mississippi rifle of that same year. It is curious that the bayonet in earlier years was always designated by the rifle it was attached to. It would come at a much later date that the bayonet actually had a name or model designation of its own. The Model 1841 was a typical sword bladed bayonet discussed in an earlier article. It's funny to note but the original 1841 Mississippi rifle came initially without a bayonet. It wasn't until 1855 when authority was given to upgrade many rifles in the US Armories to modern specifications. This authority was given by then Secretary of War Jefferson Davis later to become President of the C.S.A Write-up by. http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/okca_1998.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The following three photos I found on the internet from dealers sites as well as a photo of my own gun. (See sketches and descriptions of the different bayonet mountings above.) This rifle has the Snell bayonet alteration (two perpendicular slots at the right side of the muzzle) making this one of 1,646 rifles so altered at Harpers Ferry in 1855. This rifle has the New York socket bayonet alteration (Grosz Alteration) for the 1842 bayonet and has 2 1/8" of the muzzle turned down with a lug added to the bottom. A round brass front sight blade, added when the rifle was altered, is present just behind the reduction. The third and final bayonet attachment method. (Split ring attachment.) The bayonet lug alteration as shown on my rifle. I find it interesting that this model was adopted without the thought of a bayonet, and in 1855 three different types of bayonets and mountings were conceived as well as a caliber change from .54 to .58 with all that that entailed. I guess that is one of the interesting aspects of collecting these guns with the different variations that emanated from this period. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drm2m Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted May 28, 2009 Bayonet for the Model 1841 rifles with turned down barrels. This Model 1835 socket bayonet "might" have been appropriate for this barrel altered rifle. I had posted this photo on the Firearms section of the forum relating to the U.S. Model 1841 rifle....but I will repeat it here as I think it is relevant and a very nice piece. (Photo and item belong to David Condon.) David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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