Jump to content

Helmets have "bails" - Hay has "bales"


Bob Hudson
 Share

Recommended Posts

Bob Hudson

We often see the words "bail" and "bail" used in connection with the chinstrap attachment point for M1 helmets. The correct word should be "bail", derived from the name of the curved handle of a kettle or bucket. "bail" means "bundle" as in a "bail of cotton" or "hay bail."

 

buckethead.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very true... if your buying a bucket. However, the correct terminology is a chinstrap "loop". This is what they are called on original blueprints and what the military referred to them as. A helmet will have either fixed loops or swivel loops. Of course this is being technical and quite frankly, I'm fine with referring to them as "bails". Then again, this does bring us back to a previous discussion on the uniform section about tunics, coats and jackets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob Hudson

 

 

Very true... if your buying a bucket. However, the correct terminology is a chinstrap "loop". This is what they are called on original blueprints and what the military referred to them as. A helmet will have either fixed loops or swivel loops. Of course this is being technical and quite frankly, I'm fine with referring to them as "bails". Then again, this does bring us back to a previous discussion on the uniform section about tunics, coats and jackets.


Right - it's one of the many areas where collectors created their own term. I noticed that "bail" shows up more than "bail" when I search the forum so I thought we should at least be etymologically-correct (although Bugme might write that we should be entomologically-correct) :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

fixed loop or swivel loop sounds better

 

most people dont know what you mean by bail / bales

 

if you say chin strap loops, it makes more sense

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob Hudson
fixed loop or swivel loop sounds better

 

most people dont know what you mean by bail / bales

 

if you say chin strap loops, it makes more sense

 

Actually, "loop" hardly gets used among helmet collectors. I searched our helmet forum and found 20 pages of threads (at 25 threads per page) that use the world "bail," 10 pages using using "bail" and just four using "loop" or "loops." So, the people's choice is the wrong form of bail/bail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes I agree most collectors use the word bail

 

but when I ask a seller on ebay what type of bales the helmet has fixed or swivel, often they dont know exactly what Im talking about since they dont collect helmets, but if I say what type of chin strap loops it has swivel type of fixed type they seem to understand what Im talking about easier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got da Penny

The is the way i will remember how its spelled..

 

 

BAIL ----------- handle on a -------- PAIL

 

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, "loop" hardly gets used among helmet collectors. I searched our helmet forum and found 20 pages of threads (at 25 threads per page) that use the world "bail," 10 pages using using "bail" and just four using "loop" or "loops." So, the people's choice is the wrong form of bail/bail.

Wow, we're either a misinformed bunch or the Army named it wrong and should have consulted us first. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

craig_pickrall

Bugme it has to be us. Always remember the right way, the wrong way and the ARMY way. It is no way they can be wrong. Come on now admit it. have you ever known the Army to be wrong or make a mistake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just think if everyone one spelled everything right all the time you wouldnt pick up that once in a lifetime "helment", "helmut" or "helmit" that no one else saw because their search criteria was only set to "helmet", i love misspelled goods listed/hidden in the wrong catogory.

 

P.S i always use bail after i saw another fourm members sig pointing it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shenkursk
just think if everyone one spelled everything right all the time you wouldnt pick up that once in a lifetime "helment", "helmut" or "helmit" that no one else saw because their search criteria was only set to "helmet", i love misspelled goods listed/hidden in the wrong catogory.

 

P.S i always use bail after i saw another fourm members sig pointing it out.

 

Perhaps you are thinking of this...

 

bale_bail.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to say loop but an American friend of mine corrected me and said the right word is bail... I thought he was right because I kept seeing bail written all over the forums.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Captainofthe7th

I was younger when I learned from a collector that the loops were called "bails." I heard it by word of mouth so I just spelled it bail, I think.

 

Will try to say "loop" from now on.

 

Rob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that nobody mentioned "ring" or "staple". Examples: Swivel Ring, Fixed Staple. I see/hear those terms used very often and it's obvious what is meant. Not sure if it even matters what you call it, as long as people understand what you are referring to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that nobody mentioned "ring" or "staple". Examples: Swivel Ring, Fixed Staple. I see/hear those terms used very often and it's obvious what is meant. Not sure if it even matters what you call it, as long as people understand what you are referring to.

Staple??? :blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Here's something we didn't touch on, some have said that the Army never called the loops on the Airborne M-2 model a "D-Loop", we as collectors call it that because that's what it looks like once it's attached to the helmet. Actually they were referred to as "C-Loop" or "C-Bail?" no, wait a second, that was "C-bail"... right? :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still can't help it, since i've always believed hay was in bails and the helmets had bales, i've got it round the wrong way, but it's 2nd nature and too hard to change LOL :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • 6 months later...

Thank you for that collectors' English semantic lecture!

 

Tell me if I'm wrong!...

 

In the M-1 collecting community we got “Mr Bail” commonly known as “Mr bail” in the business. Mr Bail, alias bail, is also known as “Mr Loop” by the general audience. Is Mr Bail-bail-Loop schizophrenic? :think:

 

In some occasions Mr Bail can be named Mr Fixed Bail or Mr Swivel Bail! Note that Fixed or Swivel can be fallen with the previous aliases of Mr Bail.

 

So what to do? Use Bail as a semantic addict, or use bail in the business and Loop with the rest of the world!

 

Personally I will go for “Bail” and fall to other words if necessary.

 

Fred

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
Bugme it has to be us. Always remember the right way, the wrong way and the ARMY way. It is no way they can be wrong. Come on now admit it. have you ever known the Army to be wrong or make a mistake.

Well no disrespect but George Carlin said it best when he said "here is a real oxymoron Army Intelligence" LOL :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...