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Helmets have "bails" - Hay has "bales"


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We often see the words "bail" and "bail" used in connection with the chinstrap attachment point for M1 helmets. The correct word should be "bail", derived from the name of the curved handle of a kettle or bucket. "bail" means "bundle" as in a "bail of cotton" or "hay bail."

 

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Very true... if your buying a bucket. However, the correct terminology is a chinstrap "loop". This is what they are called on original blueprints and what the military referred to them as. A helmet will have either fixed loops or swivel loops. Of course this is being technical and quite frankly, I'm fine with referring to them as "bails". Then again, this does bring us back to a previous discussion on the uniform section about tunics, coats and jackets.

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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Very true... if your buying a bucket. However, the correct terminology is a chinstrap "loop". This is what they are called on original blueprints and what the military referred to them as. A helmet will have either fixed loops or swivel loops. Of course this is being technical and quite frankly, I'm fine with referring to them as "bails". Then again, this does bring us back to a previous discussion on the uniform section about tunics, coats and jackets.


Right - it's one of the many areas where collectors created their own term. I noticed that "bail" shows up more than "bail" when I search the forum so I thought we should at least be etymologically-correct (although Bugme might write that we should be entomologically-correct) :)


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fixed loop or swivel loop sounds better

 

most people dont know what you mean by bail / bales

 

if you say chin strap loops, it makes more sense

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fixed loop or swivel loop sounds better

 

most people dont know what you mean by bail / bales

 

if you say chin strap loops, it makes more sense

 

Actually, "loop" hardly gets used among helmet collectors. I searched our helmet forum and found 20 pages of threads (at 25 threads per page) that use the world "bail," 10 pages using using "bail" and just four using "loop" or "loops." So, the people's choice is the wrong form of bail/bail.


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Thanks for clearing it out, sometimes i doubt wether its bail or bail. Now i won't forget it thumbsup.gif

" You can manufacture weapons and you can purchase ammunition,

But you can't buy valor and you can't pull heroes off an assembly line ".

 

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U.S. 1st Infantry Division

 

Hang Tough my friend!

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yes I agree most collectors use the word bail

 

but when I ask a seller on ebay what type of bales the helmet has fixed or swivel, often they dont know exactly what Im talking about since they dont collect helmets, but if I say what type of chin strap loops it has swivel type of fixed type they seem to understand what Im talking about easier.

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Actually, "loop" hardly gets used among helmet collectors. I searched our helmet forum and found 20 pages of threads (at 25 threads per page) that use the world "bail," 10 pages using using "bail" and just four using "loop" or "loops." So, the people's choice is the wrong form of bail/bail.

Wow, we're either a misinformed bunch or the Army named it wrong and should have consulted us first. :lol:

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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just think if everyone one spelled everything right all the time you wouldnt pick up that once in a lifetime "helment", "helmut" or "helmit" that no one else saw because their search criteria was only set to "helmet", i love misspelled goods listed/hidden in the wrong catogory.

 

P.S i always use bail after i saw another fourm members sig pointing it out.

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just think if everyone one spelled everything right all the time you wouldnt pick up that once in a lifetime "helment", "helmut" or "helmit" that no one else saw because their search criteria was only set to "helmet", i love misspelled goods listed/hidden in the wrong catogory.

 

P.S i always use bail after i saw another fourm members sig pointing it out.

 

Perhaps you are thinking of this...

 

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I used to say loop but an American friend of mine corrected me and said the right word is bail... I thought he was right because I kept seeing bail written all over the forums.

"One law for them, another one for us !"

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Interesting that nobody mentioned "ring" or "staple". Examples: Swivel Ring, Fixed Staple. I see/hear those terms used very often and it's obvious what is meant. Not sure if it even matters what you call it, as long as people understand what you are referring to.

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Interesting that nobody mentioned "ring" or "staple". Examples: Swivel Ring, Fixed Staple. I see/hear those terms used very often and it's obvious what is meant. Not sure if it even matters what you call it, as long as people understand what you are referring to.

Staple??? :blink:

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's something we didn't touch on, some have said that the Army never called the loops on the Airborne M-2 model a "D-Loop", we as collectors call it that because that's what it looks like once it's attached to the helmet. Actually they were referred to as "C-Loop" or "C-Bail?" no, wait a second, that was "C-bail"... right? :wacko:

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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I still can't help it, since i've always believed hay was in bails and the helmets had bales, i've got it round the wrong way, but it's 2nd nature and too hard to change LOL :P

If you can read this, thank a teacher, and, since it's in English, thank a soldier.

- Anonymous

Dedicated to the hard core.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 6 months later...

Thank you for that collectors' English semantic lecture!

 

Tell me if I'm wrong!...

 

In the M-1 collecting community we got “Mr Bail” commonly known as “Mr bail” in the business. Mr Bail, alias bail, is also known as “Mr Loop” by the general audience. Is Mr Bail-bail-Loop schizophrenic? :think:

 

In some occasions Mr Bail can be named Mr Fixed Bail or Mr Swivel Bail! Note that Fixed or Swivel can be fallen with the previous aliases of Mr Bail.

 

So what to do? Use Bail as a semantic addict, or use bail in the business and Loop with the rest of the world!

 

Personally I will go for “Bail” and fall to other words if necessary.

 

Fred

"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life" Confucius

 

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  • 2 years later...
Bugme it has to be us. Always remember the right way, the wrong way and the ARMY way. It is no way they can be wrong. Come on now admit it. have you ever known the Army to be wrong or make a mistake.

Well no disrespect but George Carlin said it best when he said "here is a real oxymoron Army Intelligence" LOL :lol:

Always looking for the following

GI Joe figures (1:6 scale)

Korean War items dated between 1950 to 1952 or when they were first issued
79th Tank Batallion DUI and patch
Cold War medal
and in the odd chance there is something out there anything that says Nick Haponuk on it cuz chances are its my grandpas and he turned it back in.
(just let me know if u have anything I want know if there is anything out there with my last name)
Also looking for any USMC items named to a man named Gerald Joseph Burns JR. out of Michigan (thats my Great Uncle)

Vietnam era items let me know what u got

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  • 2 years later...

Maybe just call them stirrups......

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