Interesting/strange Bangalore Torpedo

[ScottG]

   This was left at the museum a few days ago and I must confess that it immediately let me know that I have never seen a real Bangalore and could not compare this. 

 

   So, the donor thought he had a rocket without fins or a military fence post and he had no info on its history, just that it was in his garage. While the top and bottom appear correct to me, and I can clearly see where the fuze was inside, its the actual tube that is weird. It is stenciled in yellow like it should be, but instead of M1A1 etc... it says Shwayder Brothers and then the size/diameter of the tube itself.

 

    Shwayder Brothers were makers of Bangalores so this checks out, but as to what it is seems a bit elusive. Perhaps a display piece, or some type of salesman sample, or just a strange fake, I am not sure. Here are pics of the ends, my pic of the tube didn't turn out but just think, standard tube with Shwayder Brothers in a military style yellow stencil instead of the usual nomenclature.  Thanks for any input or thoughts.    Scott

[aznation]

Look at this video Scott.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn3axQ8-DJM&t=1s

[ScottG]

13 minutes ago, aznation said:

Look at this video Scott.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn3axQ8-DJM&t=1s

 

         Great info in the video Matt, but nothing to explain the unusual maker name on the tube or why that is there instead of the usual nomenclature.    Scott

[aznation]

13 minutes ago, ScottG said:

 

         Great info in the video Matt, but nothing to explain the unusual maker name on the tube or why that is there instead of the usual nomenclature.    Scott

Hi Scott,

Shwayder Brothers were the largest manufacturer of luggage in Denver, CO.  During WWII they made bombs and obviously bangalores as well.

 

Perhaps the some of the articles below will explain the military connection of Shwayder Brothers and even some that specifically mention bangalores.

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ScottG]

    WOW Matt, you always pull the coolest articles and information and there is certainly some great first hand accounts of the company. That said, what I am trying to figure out are the stenciled markings on the tube. Instead of stating Torpedo, Bangalore, M1A1 with the lot number as shown, it merely states Shwayder Brothers with the tube diameter. This seems at best odd, and certainly not to military standard.

    My thoughts range from a corporate wall hanger/decoration to a so called salesman sample, to a company museum piece, or sadly to a fake, though I have no reason to believe it was made to deceive as it doesn't have the markings one would want. My hope is that someone here may have a better idea of why its this way or may have seen another like it. 

    All that said, and as always, I do appreciate all of the info as it does at least drive home the fact that Shwayder was a major supplier of these in WWII, so again, thanks for all of your research.    Scott

[aznation]

You're welcome Scott.  Can you provide actual photographs of the entire tube and the markings that are on tube/s?  Also, you know for a fact now based on those newspaper articles, Shwayder Brothers did in fact make torpedo bangalore tubes for the military.  I doubt seriously the tubes were filled with TNT at Shwayder Brothers but were filled somewhere else.  Once you show us the tube diameter in your photo/s of what you have perhaps we will be able to verify whether it matches exactly to a WW2 military torpedo bangalore.  If it does match I'd say you have a torpedo bangalore tube manufactured for the military by Shwayder Brothers.  Personally I don't believe it's a corporate wall hanger/decoration, salesman sample, company museum piece, or even a fake, nor do I believe it was made to deceive for the same reasons you stated.  I don't know for sure what the correct U.S. Army markings on a WWII torpedo bangalore would be but maybe someone will be able to tell you.  Let's say it is supposed to have yellow markings on it as you show in that one photo you got from somewhere.  Maybe that torpedo bangalore tube you have didn't get far enough down the line so to speak to have those type of markings on it.  I'll wait until I see your actual photo/s of the tube that you have.  Thank you Scott.  -- Matt

[ScottG]

2 hours ago, aznation said:

You're welcome Scott.  Can you provide actual photographs of the entire tube and the markings that are on tube/s?  Also, you know for a fact now based on those newspaper articles, Shwayder Brothers did in fact make torpedo bangalore tubes for the military.  I doubt seriously the tubes were filled with TNT at Shwayder Brothers but were filled somewhere else.  Once you show us the tube diameter in your photo/s of what you have perhaps we will be able to verify whether it matches exactly to a WW2 military torpedo bangalore.  If it does match I'd say you have a torpedo bangalore tube manufactured for the military by Shwayder Brothers.  Personally I don't believe it's a corporate wall hanger/decoration, salesman sample, company museum piece, or even a fake, nor do I believe it was made to deceive for the same reasons you stated.  I don't know for sure what the correct U.S. Army markings on a WWII torpedo bangalore would be but maybe someone will be able to tell you.  Let's say it is supposed to have yellow markings on it as you show in that one photo you got from somewhere.  Maybe that torpedo bangalore tube you have didn't get far enough down the line so to speak to have those type of markings on it.  I'll wait until I see your actual photo/s of the tube that you have.  Thank you Scott.  -- Matt

 

       I am back at the museum tomorrow Matt and will re-shoot the pics and post them. Thank you again for all the info, the fact that only the Detroit Shwayder plant made these is in itself a fantastic piece of info for us.    Scott

[Brian Dentino]

Now this is the kind of cool, and unusual stuff, we here get to learn about on this forum and not many other places.  I will be following along, I have NO idea on this, to see what may be found out about this interesting item.  Such a great place to be able to come together and get ideas/pointers/knowledge from others to learn about all of the usual, not so usual, and downright obscure items that are still out there from out military past.

[ScottG]

   OK here are the markings on the one we have, and as mentioned and shown above are the "standard" military markings with nomenclature and lot # etc... So, why is this one just marked Shwayder Brothers with the diameter? Company/Sales sample? Corporate history piece? Demonstration or Expo piece? Fake, possible but doubtful as there is clearly no intent to deceive or make it look "real". Thoughts from the group?     Thanks! Scott

[917601]

Search here for information.

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/torpedo_-bangalore_-2-inch_-mk.html?q=bangalore

[917601]

Coloring….

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/pdf/OP-1665.pdf#page=448

[aznation]

23 hours ago, ScottG said:

   OK here are the markings on the one we have, and as mentioned and shown above are the "standard" military markings with nomenclature and lot # etc... So, why is this one just marked Shwayder Brothers with the diameter? Company/Sales sample? Corporate history piece? Demonstration or Expo piece? Fake, possible but doubtful as there is clearly no intent to deceive or make it look "real". Thoughts from the group?     Thanks! Scott

 

Hi Scott, 

Thank you for the additional photos of the actual torpedo bangalore you have.  So, what I can tell you is you have a proper torpedo bangalore tube with nose sleeve as well as connecting sleeve attached, made by Shwayder Bros. with the correct diameter sized tube, in the correct lusterless olive drab color with correctly colored lettering, that being yellow.  The ONLY things missing on the tube is the stenciled yellow type, model, and lot number.  Personally, I don't think anyone will be able to answer why those items are missing off your tube.  It could be a company/sales sample, corporate history piece, or a demonstration or expo piece.  One thing in my mind based on the totality of evidence  is that it's NOT a fake.  That's about as much as I can say on this but maybe others might have something to say about it.  Regards...Matt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Demolition_Materials_TM_9-1946.pdf

[aznation]

1 hour ago, 917601 said:

Coloring….

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/pdf/OP-1665.pdf#page=448

Thanks but that's a British Ordnance Manual.

[aznation]

1 hour ago, 917601 said:

Search here for information.

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/torpedo_-bangalore_-2-inch_-mk.html?q=bangalore

Thanks, but again British.  Appreciate it though.  Take care...

[ScottG]

Thanks as always Matt and I tend to agree that its just so different that there won't be a concrete answer as to why. All that said, hopefully it sparks some conversations and from what I understand, just having a real one is quite rare.  Best to you as always.     Scott