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Vietnam (M1956) webbing rig


BrokenShovelDude
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BrokenShovelDude

Hello everyone! So I've finally gotten my M1956 rig (webbing) to look remotely like an actual Vietnam rig, but I was wondering how it looks so far. The rig consists of:

 

KW era Pistol Belt

KW era carlisle bandage pouch with bandage (late vietnam model?)

M1943 Shovel and cover

M1956 Universal Ammunition pouch (1st and 2nd models)

M1956ish suspenders (looks like they're post vietnam)

M1956 canteen cover

Canteen cup (not dated "ROGERS AKRON OHIO"

Canteen (90's issue)

1945 "M1" cleaning kit pouch

"demilled" MK2 grenade (will be replaced by M61)

 

M1956Webbing.jpg

 

I plan to get a "buttpack" and a compass pouch.

 

So once again, I'm wondering how I'm doing so far. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

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surplus sammy

Its a good start.

Ditch the shovel & cover,put it on a ruck if you get one later.

Loose the M1 cleaning kit,your not going to have an M1 to use it on,get a M16 cleaning kit instead.

Grab the butt pack and another canteen cover and canteen (No NBC tops)

That should do a good basic setup.

 

Once you get a ruck,you can fill it with all the other odds,mess kit,toiletries,spare clothes,

rations,letter writting gear,spare ammo,flares,mags,frags,claymore,LAWS,the list can go

on till your back breaks really,then your about there.

 

 

Heres one I finished not long ago

4d9.jpg

18c.jpg

243.jpg

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USMCRECON

Just FYI.....from my limited perspective, I don't remember ever seeing a bipod pouch on a belt. In fact, while we were issued, I don't remember any Recon Marine even taking one of those cheap POS's bipods to the field (at least not more than once).

 

They were an interesting concept but, in actuality, they were pretty worthless in the bush. For one, the M-16 really didn't recoil enough to make them necessary, even on full-auto (assuming the weapon would actually fire more than a couple rounds before jamming). One didn't move in the bush with them attached to the rifle. They were just held around the bbl with spring tension and any sort of movement in the bush would pull them off on a vine, branch, etc.

 

Even crawling around on the ground under fire would tend to pop them off. Once in a firefight, there wasn't time to get them out and attach them. In fact, in the 6+ months that I carried the M-60, I don't remember more than one time I even used the bipod on it, and it was permanently attached and sturdy. If I remember correctly from 39-41 years ago, the bipod pouch also held the cleaning gear. Usually, the cleaning pouch was either clipped onto one of the ALICE straps on the rucksack or, most often, carried inside).

 

However the cleaning rod itself, was another story. The M-16s we had in 66-67-68 were untrustworthy, even when inspection clean as they were before going to the field. When we circled the LZ, on final approach for the insert, those Recon Marines unfortunate enough to be carrying the M-16 frequently screwed their cleaning rod segments together and slid it down between their ruck and their back so they had easy access to if/when a cartridge case jammed in the chamber.

 

At the first stop one ground and out of the LZ area it was usually taken apart and put back in the pouch again. In fact on one patrol where I had to carry the M-16, I used green 100mile an hour tape to secure the rod segments to the bottom of the fore-stock...just in case. I actually have a photo somewhere of me firing the M-16 with the rod segments taped to the bottom of the fore-stock.

 

Just thought I'd share a couple thoughts with you all.

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Just FYI.....from my limited perspective, I don't remember ever seeing a bipod pouch on a belt. In fact, while we were issued, I don't remember any Recon Marine even taking one of those cheap POS's bipods to the field (at least not more than once).

 

They were an interesting concept but, in actuality, they were pretty worthless in the bush. For one, the M-16 really didn't recoil enough to make them necessary, even on full-auto (assuming the weapon would actually fire more than a couple rounds before jamming). One didn't move in the bush with them attached to the rifle. They were just held around the bbl with spring tension and any sort of movement in the bush would pull them off on a vine, branch, etc.

 

Even crawling around on the ground under fire would tend to pop them off. Once in a firefight, there wasn't time to get them out and attach them. In fact, in the 6+ months that I carried the M-60, I don't remember more than one time I even used the bipod on it, and it was permanently attached and sturdy. If I remember correctly from 39-41 years ago, the bipod pouch also held the cleaning gear. Usually, the cleaning pouch was either clipped onto one of the ALICE straps on the rucksack or, most often, carried inside).

 

However the cleaning rod itself, was another story. The M-16s we had in 66-67-68 were untrustworthy, even when inspection clean as they were before going to the field. When we circled the LZ, on final approach for the insert, those Recon Marines unfortunate enough to be carrying the M-16 frequently screwed their cleaning rod segments together and slid it down between their ruck and their back so they had easy access to if/when a cartridge case jammed in the chamber.

 

At the first stop one ground and out of the LZ area it was usually taken apart and put back in the pouch again. In fact on one patrol where I had to carry the M-16, I used green 100mile an hour tape to secure the rod segments to the bottom of the fore-stock...just in case. I actually have a photo somewhere of me firing the M-16 with the rod segments taped to the bottom of the fore-stock.

 

Just thought I'd share a couple thoughts with you all.

 

 

I noticed in your signature you have Ervin Lovell in it. Ervin was my dad's youngest brother. I would love to hear more from you.

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Dirteater101

Your gear should be configured for your particular weapon. What are you carrying? An M-16 config would be different than that of an M-14 or of a combat shotgun.

Yep i agree, the bipod and shovel are almost useless on a long range patrol. Save the weight to carry more frag grenades.

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USMCRECON
I noticed in your signature you have Ervin Lovell in it. Ervin was my dad's youngest brother. I would love to hear more from you.

 

Would your father be Tom Lovell? I went through Infantry training and Recon School with Ervin. We both went to Nam together but we went to different Recon Companies once we arrived in Vietnam.

 

I had an e-mail exchange with a member of the Lovell family a couple months ago and I provided the URL for our Recon website and message board. Would that have been you? If that was you, did Rod Kicklighter (Ervin's patrol leader) ever get in touch with you?

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Would your father be Tom Lovell? I went through Infantry training and Recon School with Ervin. We both went to Nam together but we went to different Recon Companies once we arrived in Vietnam.

 

I had an e-mail exchange with a member of the Lovell family a couple months ago and I provided the URL for our Recon website and message board. Would that have been you? If that was you, did Rod Kicklighter (Ervin's patrol leader) ever get in touch with you?

 

 

My Dad was Charles, he was the oldest of all the brothers/sister. Do you remember who it was you spoke with? Wasn't me. Would love to be in touch with anyone that knew my Uncle Ervin. Did you know Tom too?

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Hello everyone! So I've finally gotten my M1956 rig (webbing) to look remotely like an actual Vietnam rig, but I was wondering how it looks so far. The rig consists of:

 

KW era Pistol Belt

KW era carlisle bandage pouch with bandage (late vietnam model?)

M1943 Shovel and cover

M1956 Universal Ammunition pouch (1st and 2nd models)

M1956ish suspenders (looks like they're post vietnam)

M1956 canteen cover

Canteen cup (not dated "ROGERS AKRON OHIO"

Canteen (90's issue)

1945 "M1" cleaning kit pouch

"demilled" MK2 grenade (will be replaced by M61)

 

M1956Webbing.jpg

 

I plan to get a "buttpack" and a compass pouch.

 

So once again, I'm wondering how I'm doing so far. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

I have a couple of sets of this stuff and some misic. bits and pieces. If your interested, contact me. I will be away from the computer this weekend.

 

Steve Hesson

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USMCRECON
My Dad was Charles, he was the oldest of all the brothers/sister. Do you remember who it was you spoke with? Wasn't me. Would love to be in touch with anyone that knew my Uncle Ervin. Did you know Tom too?

 

I didn't know Tom but someone that contacted me several months ago (perhaps one of Tom's kids) sent me a picture of Ervin and Tom during a visit Ervin had with Tom, probably not long after arriving in Nam.

 

Go to the 1st Recon Bn web site: http://www.1streconbnassociation.org/

 

Then scroll down to "ENTER"

 

Then scroll down the left for KIA Tributes and you'll find the picture of Ervin and Tom posted there. The KIA list will also have Ervin's name on it.

 

There is also a "Looking" link that is to be used to post messages. You can ask for anyone who knew Ervin to get in touch with you. I just tried it but it seems to be down. If you can't get into the message board, here's an alternative.

 

Scroll all the way down on the left to the OFFICERS block and click on the Membership director (Bob Morris). Tell Bob that Bill Woodier suggested you contact him. Ask him to post your message seeking contact with Recon Marines who knew Ervin. Erwin and I weren't foxhole buddies or anything like that but I did know him during our training and preparations for deploying to Nam.

 

I hope this helps you. If you have any other questions or if I can help you further in any way, don't hesitate to contact me at: modelhawk@aol.com.

 

Cheers; Bill

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USMCRECON
I have a couple of sets of this stuff and some misic. bits and pieces. If your interested, contact me. I will be away from the computer this weekend.

 

Steve Hesson

 

One thing I forgot to mention earlier; I don't know if this pertains to Army (probably not since they got the new stuff first) or even Marine Grunts (though it probably does) but when I first got to Recon in early 1967, the M-16 mag pouches were still scarce.

 

Some Marines carrying the M-16 were still using M-14 mag pouches through at least early summer of 67. I seem to remember that two 20-rd mags (we didn't have 30 round mags for anything but the Stoners at any time during my tour) would fit in the M-14 pouch.

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BrokenShovelDude

Thanks for the help fellas! On the subject of the M1 cleaning rod pouch, I also have an M16 cleaning pouch but it looks virtually the same so I used the older one but I'll switch it out. What about the bandage pouch? is it correct?

 

Just to make sure it's historically correct, I wrapped rigger tape (hurricane tape/duct tape) around the connecting hooks so it doesnt jingle when you move, was this method ever used in the vietnam war?

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USMCRECON
Thanks for the help fellas! On the subject of the M1 cleaning rod pouch, I also have an M16 cleaning pouch but it looks virtually the same so I used the older one but I'll switch it out. What about the bandage pouch? is it correct?

 

Just to make sure it's historically correct, I wrapped rigger tape (hurricane tape/duct tape) around the connecting hooks so it doesn't jingle when you move, was this method ever used in the Vietnam war?

 

For what it's worth, I guess it depends on what it is you're trying to show. If all you're trying to do is show off a bunch of various items of equipment, you can wear an original M-16 kit on the cartridge belt. However, if you're trying to replicate kit as actually worn in the field on a combat operation/mission, as I mentioned earlier, you normally didn't find the cleaning kit attached to the pistol belt. It would normally be inside the rucksack/pack where it wouldn't be seen anyway so it wouldn't really matter whether it was an older kit or not.

 

The items worn on the cartridge belt were items that would be needed quickly and, with the exception of an M-16 cleaning rod (see my comment above), the cleaning kit didn't meet that criteria. I'm sure you could find a couple instances where someone wore their cleaning kit on their belt but that would not have been the norm. The canteens are also too close to the butt pack. In reality, the butt pack, especially if worn alone with no backback, would have been quite full. The canteens are so close that they would interfere with fully packing the butt pack.

 

One final comment, this one about taping everything up. This was important with Marine Recon, LRRP, and SF because they traveled in "denied areas" where they were the minority, they didn't want to be found, and stealth was critical. With the grunts, it was not that critical, though it probably was done on some occasions. Much of the time, the infantry traveled in larger numbers, their arrival on the battlefield was usually heralded by a lot of helos coming and going. It was almost impossible to keep a grunt platoon with helmets, flak jackets, LAAW tubes, and such quiet moving in the bush, let alone a company or battalion, so stealth was not as important.

 

OK, well, that's about all I wanted to add on this issue.

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