Jump to content

1902 Army Officer Swords


SARGE
 Share

Recommended Posts

Gentlemen,

 

I know there must be lots of variations of the 1902 Army Officer Sword out there in collections. Show yours! w00t.gif

 

Here is a standard 1902 Army Officer Saber from between the wars.

 

Army_sword.JPG

 

This one is complete with the brown leather sword knot and the saber chain to suspend the sword from the belt via a sword frog. This hilt has the early nickel guard and backstrap, while later swords normally have plated steel guards.

 

Army_sword_hilt_close.JPG

 

The grips are black ebony wood with finger grooves. Some later swords have dyed wood or composite grips instead of ebony.

 

Army_sword_hilt_reverse.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This inter-war sword was manufactured by Carl Eickhorn in Solingen and was imported from Germany prior to World War II. This Eickhorn logo will also be found on pre-war German swords and daggers.

 

Army_sword_logo.JPG

 

View of the blade etching showing the eagle normally found on the obverse of these 1902 Army Officer Saber blades. The eagle wings are generally spread from hilt to tip on the blade of US manufactured swords while the eagle is often found in this configuration on German etched blades.

 

Army_sword_blade_eagle_etch.JPG

 

View of the reverse blade etching showing the US that is normally seen on these blades. Again, the US is oriented in the same manner as the eagle on the other side of the blade.

 

Army_sword_blade_US_etch.JPG

 

Who else has a variation of the 1902 Army Officer Saber to show? thumbsup.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BOB K. RKSS

Very nice > top quality sword! Eickhorn discontinued that form of trademark in 1935; so Your sword is at least 72 years old. thumbsup.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice Eickhorn and Springfield. Both seldom seen.

 

I've got a few from small makers like George Donovan. Also a Horstman and a few others. They can be had for relatively little money and often times are found personalized.

 

Both of your sabers are very nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Swordfish,

 

Show us the variations that you have if you can. Photos of the maker marks are of interest to me. Often one will find both maker markings and distributor (vendor) markings on these swords.

 

Copdoc,

 

Your Springfield Armory sword looks early. Does it also have the non-magnetic hilt? It seems they had trouble with the nickel hilts denting and changed the regulation specs to plated steel somewhere along the line.

 

Bob,

 

Right you are on the Eickhorn logo dates. Notice this is an early version of this marking with the "C.E." located just beneath the squirrel.

 

Here is another example of the miniature 1902 sword. This one is for the Military Academy at West Point.

 

Mini_1902_MA_sword.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Copdoc,

Your Springfield Armory sword looks early. Does it also have the non-magnetic hilt? It seems they had trouble with the nickel hilts denting and changed the regulation specs to plated steel somewhere along the line.

It is non magnetic. I don't know much about these swords. I bought this one from a Civil War shop that was moving. It was his last day, he was loading the last load and it was raining. He offered to sell it cheap since it did not fit the CW theme. I liked that it was made at Springfield Armory. I read in a web page that some might have been used in WWI in the trenches but I have never seen any photgraphs showing them. I aslo have net seen any with "trench maces" and I know they were used. What else can you tell me about it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Copdoc,

 

The Springfield Armory manufactured these swords from 1902 through 1914. They switched to making Cavalry Sabres after that date so your sword is from that pre-WWI time period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
swordfish

Here's a couple of my M-1902's.

 

I've listed a George Donovan with what I believe to be Ohio State University ROTC arsenal markings.

 

As well as a 1940's Horstman and an unattributed "made in the USA" saber that is personalized. Back strap has markings as well as the scabbard, named to a Captain and presentation date of 1940-1941.

post-210-1178125532.jpg

post-210-1178125540.jpg

post-210-1178125549.jpg

post-210-1178125555.jpg

post-210-1178125565.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Swordfish,

 

Two very neat 1902 sword varieties. thumbsup.gif

 

I particularly like the presentation for saber proficiency. I would very much have liked to received a prize like that when I was a college fencer. :rolleyes:

 

Here is another presentation variation that is not mine but was on ebay. It shows the breadth of the variations that are out there in sword-land.

 

Pres_1902.jpg

 

This one has an eagle head pommel. I have seen these with red stone eyes and without colored stones in the eyes.

 

Pres_1902_hilt.jpg

 

This particular one was sold by a very old military supply company but I don't think this example is all that old.

 

Pres_1902_maker.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

swordfish

Thank you Sarge.

 

I should probably clarify. The Geo. Donovan has the blade markings including the OSU and arsenal/propety marks.

 

The Saber Club belongs with this personalized scabbard. No MM. Just an unattributed. Scabbard throat area marked Capt. so and so, Co. K. Unfortunately, someone replaced the throat piece along the way as the original is missing and a flush throat is present.

 

Then there is the Horstman that is personalized. Acid Etched on the blade is the owners name.

post-210-1178203995.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Dak91
This inter-war sword was manufactured by Carl Eickhorn in Solingen and was imported from Germany prior to World War II. This Eickhorn logo will also be found on pre-war German swords and daggers.

 

post-130-1175793961.jpg

 

View of the blade etching showing the eagle normally found on the obverse of these 1902 Army Officer Saber blades. The eagle wings are generally spread from hilt to tip on the blade of US manufactured swords while the eagle is often found in this configuration on German etched blades.

 

post-130-1175794038.jpg

 

View of the reverse blade etching showing the US that is normally seen on these blades. Again, the US is oriented in the same manner as the eagle on the other side of the blade.

 

post-130-1175794187.jpg

 

Who else has a variation of the 1902 Army Officer Saber to show? thumbsup.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Spathologist

I've just acquired one with a Germany-marked blade and "Desmond Los Angeles" stamped on the ricasso. Never heard of them, and Google comes up blank.

 

Anyone know who they were and when they operated?

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Post a photo if you can. Never heard of them. My guess is that they were simply a distributer of sorts. Probably from the 1920's-1930's I'm guessing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Varangian,

 

I don't find them listed in my references either. No listing under military goods dealers or society goods. I would try to find a Los Angeles city directory from between 1902 and 1942 and see if I could locate them. I have had luck with obscure firms before with the city directories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like put a bid on this M1902 marked "Made in France and imported by RIDABOCK & Co, New York" so I'd like to know the era and how much I can bid.

BTW It could be correct on a NCO M1912 web pistol belt?

post-67-1181208628.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like put a bid on this M1902 marked "Made in France and imported by RIDABOCK & Co, New York" so I'd like to know the era and how much I can bid.

BTW It could be correct on a NCO M1912 web pistol belt?

 

 

artu44,

 

Ridabock was and old established military retailer. This sword could certainly be quite early (from 1902 onward) and would be apprpriate for the WWI time period. It is an officer sword however and not an NCO sword. I see these swords sell routinely for anywhere between $100 and $200 on ebay in nice condition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks SARGE. I was told that NOCs were allowed to bear the M1902 only during parades. What kind of sword would you suggest for an NCO M1912 pistol belt with D ring and an M1903 sabre hanger?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks SARGE. I was told that NOCs were allowed to bear the M1902 only during parades. What kind of sword would you suggest for an NCO M1912 pistol belt with D ring and an M1903 sabre hanger?

 

You ask the $64. question. This sword belt is an oddity and I can't find my Dorsey book on belts at the moment.

 

IF an officer were to wear this belt, I would say this is the sword they would wear. It was 1902 regulation, "For all officers except Chaplains.-According to sealed pattern in the office of the Quartermaster General; the guard and scabbard to be of German silver. With the service uniform the scabbard shall be of steel in dull-finished metal." Bear in mind that officers bought their swords so there is some variance.

 

IF an enlisted man were to wear a sword with this belt, I would say it would most likely be the Experimental Model 1906 Cavalry Saber or the 1906 Cavalry Saber with iron hilts. I have never seen a photo of this belt in wear with a sword and the 1913 Cavalry Saber was not worn on the belt by enlisted men. Officers could wear the 1913 sword on a belt in garrison. My 1908 "Provisional Regulations for Saber Exercise" shows the Experimental Model 1906 Cavalry Saber being worn on a leather belt with the 1903 sword slings.

 

I hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spathologist
I'd like put a bid on this M1902 marked "Made in France and imported by RIDABOCK & Co, New York" so I'd like to know the era and how much I can bid.

BTW It could be correct on a NCO M1912 web pistol belt?

 

I thought I'd seen that sword somewhere...

 

http://www.waddingtons.ca/auctions/view.ph...40&lot=0260

 

That auction ended 27 March, and it went for $310, according to the prices realized sheet. They have used the sword knot as a scabbard hanger; what some people do to their equipment....

 

Very nice; if you decide against it, I'd appreciate a shot at it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sarge, you can find that belt on Dorsey book "US martial web....." at pag.65 as M1912 with NCO sabre chape.

Varangian, that Ridabock sold today on UK ebay at 243$ and I was outbidded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spathologist

On the M1902 I mentioned above, here is a pic of the stamped importer/retailer mark DESMOND/LOS ANGELES. The other side of the ricasso has one of the brass PROVED slugs of the type with a stylized sword of some kind, set in the middle of the regular six-pointed star.

 

The blade is stainless, with GERMANY stamped on the spine below the guard and very deep etching of the usual German pattern, identical to that of the sword in the first post.

 

The guard and pommel are non-magnetic, which means either german silver or plated brass. Due to the lack of any bubbling or brass showing through, and the bright silver tone of some areas of slight but obvious wear, I'm currently leaning towards german silver.

 

The blade is peened to the pommel.

 

The handle is synthetic, probably bakelite.

 

From all the above, I'd tentatively date it to the early 1930's but I have never heard of and can find no reference for the importer/retailer.

 

post-1047-1181266889.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spathologist

Well, I looked up a 1930 Los Angeles telephone directory, and they have listed a "Desmond's, Ralph R. Huesman, Pres and Gnl Mgr, Complete Apparel Store for Men and Boys".

 

Looks a likely candidate...a department store sword, lol!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I looked up a 1930 Los Angeles telephone directory, and they have listed a "Desmond's, Ralph R. Huesman, Pres and Gnl Mgr, Complete Apparel Store for Men and Boys".

 

Looks a likely candidate...a department store sword, lol!

 

 

Varangian,

 

Good detective work! thumbsup.gif

 

It sounds like you have your retailer. A new one on me. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spathologist

Thanks, every little bit of info helps! There is surprisingly little organized info on the 1902s...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...