Just would like a little clarification please

[Panzerjunky]

Hello and good evening 

I have a couple questions regarding Collar disks. 

1st one is easy (I think) on the type 5 collar disk I have 2 different backing types on some in my collection.  Most are what appears to be steel or galvanized metal the rest are brass. 

I have been told anything backing wise in brass is post WW2 due to wartime metal restrictions. Is this true??

second question is regarding type 1 restrikes. I am using the guideline Flat back no prongs = restrike Dome around the base of the threaded post = restrike. is this sound advice and are there any more known tell tales. Not counting lettered and numbered disks that simply require one on one research to see if they actually existed.

Next question is I have 3 type one and type 2 infantry enlisted disks with the crossed rifles and an S under them. does anyone know what the s signifies? 

last question for now, is some of my type 2 gilt disks have a small star maker mark. does anyone know who that maker may be?

Thanks in advance 

Jerry

 

[Allan H.]

10 hours ago, Panzerjunky said:

Hello and good evening 

I have a couple questions regarding Collar disks. 

1st one is easy (I think) on the type 5 collar disk I have 2 different backing types on some in my collection.  Most are what appears to be steel or galvanized metal the rest are brass. 

I have been told anything backing wise in brass is post WW2 due to wartime metal restrictions. Is this true??

second question is regarding type 1 restrikes. I am using the guideline Flat back no prongs = restrike Dome around the base of the threaded post = restrike. is this sound advice and are there any more known tell tales. Not counting lettered and numbered disks that simply require one on one research to see if they actually existed.

Next question is I have 3 type one and type 2 infantry enlisted disks with the crossed rifles and an S under them. does anyone know what the s signifies? 

last question for now, is some of my type 2 gilt disks have a small star maker mark. does anyone know who that maker may be?

Thanks in advance 

Jerry

 

Panzerjunky,

 

I'd like to give you an answer to your questions about type five "Stamped" EM disks, I would tell you that you will find the backs with plates which would affix the disk to the uniform. You will see them with a brass bar with the two prongs, which is most common. This method was used well past WWII as the stamped disk was still being issued during the Vietnam period. This type of mounting most definitely was used during World War II as well. You can find the crossed arrows of the First Special Service Force and the half track worn by Tank Destroyer forces with these brass bars. You will also find the backing bar made with a grey metal. These look just like the brass bars, except that the material color varies from a silver-grey color to almost black. Finally, you will find backing plates that encompass the entire back are of the disk. This material is aluminum and it will have a bright silvery appearance. 

 

As for the WWI fakes, there is a great thread on these that should help you to sort out the pitfalls of collecting rarer Type 1 disks in the collar disk section.

 

Allan

 

 

[ScottG]

10 hours ago, Panzerjunky said:

Hello and good evening 

I have a couple questions regarding Collar disks. 

1st one is easy (I think) on the type 5 collar disk I have 2 different backing types on some in my collection.  Most are what appears to be steel or galvanized metal the rest are brass. 

I have been told anything backing wise in brass is post WW2 due to wartime metal restrictions. Is this true??

second question is regarding type 1 restrikes. I am using the guideline Flat back no prongs = restrike Dome around the base of the threaded post = restrike. is this sound advice and are there any more known tell tales. Not counting lettered and numbered disks that simply require one on one research to see if they actually existed.

Next question is I have 3 type one and type 2 infantry enlisted disks with the crossed rifles and an S under them. does anyone know what the s signifies? 

last question for now, is some of my type 2 gilt disks have a small star maker mark. does anyone know who that maker may be?

Thanks in advance 

Jerry

 

 

              S is likely for Service Company.       Scott

[Panzerjunky]

5 hours ago, Allan H. said:

Panzerjunky,

 

I'd like to give you an answer to your questions about type five "Stamped" EM disks, I would tell you that you will find the backs with plates which would affix the disk to the uniform. You will see them with a brass bar with the two prongs, which is most common. This method was used well past WWII as the stamped disk was still being issued during the Vietnam period. This type of mounting most definitely was used during World War II as well. You can find the crossed arrows of the First Special Service Force and the half track worn by Tank Destroyer forces with these brass bars. You will also find the backing bar made with a grey metal. These look just like the brass bars, except that the material color varies from a silver-grey color to almost black. Finally, you will find backing plates that encompass the entire back are of the disk. This material is aluminum and it will have a bright silvery appearance. 

 

As for the WWI fakes, there is a great thread on these that should help you to sort out the pitfalls of collecting rarer Type 1 disks in the collar disk section.

 

Allan

 

 

Allan Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. And yes, I do know the backing plates in question ran Damm near into the 70's but what I was wondering, for cataloging purposes in my collection. When i say WW2 or post WW2 I just want to be correct. You are saying that you see 1ssf and TD collar disks with the brass bar and we know those disks didn't run past WW2. So do you feel that the brass backing bar was used during WW2. And thank on the info on the fakes I have like 30 pages in my little reference binder on collar disks alone as well at the fantastic book 'the collar disk story ' By Albert Scipio . That book has mor info on collar disk than anyone wants to know LOL. but the only place I see a time frame on the zinc bar is on the tripod Reff. that says the point about it being a war material, so brass was not used. until 1945 when it was no longer a war resource. But that is the only place I have seen that bit of info. I like to get info from more than one reputable source before i commit to it LOL. And thanks for the info on the aluminum backing, I thought it to was zinc as aluminum was a valuable wartime resource as well. 

Thanks for you help sir ....Jerry 

[Panzerjunky]

5 hours ago, ScottG said:

 

              S is likely for Service Company.       Scott

Thank you for your help, Scott. 

I have like 5 of them so no they aren't rare But I can't find a single printed Reff as to what it is. Even Scipio's book (unless I missed it) Doesn't show it  So......Service it is for now. Thanks Jerry

[Major Z]

I have a b/w unit photo of the 21st Infantry Regiment "S" company in my collection. They were eventually part of the 24th ID, though the picture is from 1937. Written directly on the photo states it is a Service Company. 

[Allan H.]

16 hours ago, Panzerjunky said:

Allan Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. And yes, I do know the backing plates in question ran Damm near into the 70's but what I was wondering, for cataloging purposes in my collection. When i say WW2 or post WW2 I just want to be correct. You are saying that you see 1ssf and TD collar disks with the brass bar and we know those disks didn't run past WW2. So do you feel that the brass backing bar was used during WW2. And thank on the info on the fakes I have like 30 pages in my little reference binder on collar disks alone as well at the fantastic book 'the collar disk story ' By Albert Scipio . That book has mor info on collar disk than anyone wants to know LOL. but the only place I see a time frame on the zinc bar is on the tripod Reff. that says the point about it being a war material, so brass was not used. until 1945 when it was no longer a war resource. But that is the only place I have seen that bit of info. I like to get info from more than one reputable source before i commit to it LOL. And thanks for the info on the aluminum backing, I thought it to was zinc as aluminum was a valuable wartime resource as well. 

Thanks for you help sir ....Jerry 

Jerry,

 

There were undoubtedly collar disks that used the brass bar to retain the clutch prongs to the back of the disk during WWII, and both the FSSF and Taank Destroyer forces will indeed have those brass bars. I was talking to another collector yesterday about the subject and he mentioned that you will also occasionally find those bars made out of copper. I knew that, but failed to include it when I was writing my response.

 

I think the information that the brass bars didn't exist until 1945 is 100% false. While brass was considered a strategic metal during the war, its use was still allocated for the manufacture of military insignia. 

 

You have the greatest collar brass reference by having Dr. Scipio's book. He was a true gentleman and scholar. I would still encourage you to read the other threads here on the forum to help you to flesh out the information that you've found from the references you mentioned.

 

Allan

[atb]

Page 89 in Scipio talks about the "S," for regimental supply companies, to be added to disks.

[Panzerjunky]

7 hours ago, Allan H. said:

Jerry,

 

There were undoubtedly collar disks that used the brass bar to retain the clutch prongs to the back of the disk during WWII, and both the FSSF and Taank Destroyer forces will indeed have those brass bars. I was talking to another collector yesterday about the subject and he mentioned that you will also occasionally find those bars made out of copper. I knew that, but failed to include it when I was writing my response.

 

I think the information that the brass bars didn't exist until 1945 is 100% false. While brass was considered a strategic metal during the war, its use was still allocated for the manufacture of military insignia. 

 

You have the greatest collar brass reference by having Dr. Scipio's book. He was a true gentleman and scholar. I would still encourage you to read the other threads here on the forum to help you to flesh out the information that you've found from the references you mentioned.

 

Allan

Allan Thank you for following and expanding on my question I am most grateful. And yes, I have been lurking on here for some time but just never found any other claim supporting the 1945 reference. so, thanks for your help. I have a hundred or so disks and just want to catalogue and categorize them correctly so when I kick the bucket. The next curator of my collection won't have to do it. LOL I'm more a patch and wing guy.

Thanks for your help

Jerry 

[Panzerjunky]

6 hours ago, atb said:

Page 89 in Scipio talks about the "S," for regimental supply companies, to be added to disks.

Thank you, ATB,

 I am only on page 76 in actually reading the book page by page. I was looking for a pic in the photos of disks. Thank you as I just looked it up it was under MG units. but there it was. Thank you, sir, I much appreciate you.

Thanks Jerry 

[Panzerjunky]

On 1/2/2026 at 1:45 PM, Major Z said:

I have a b/w unit photo of the 21st Infantry Regiment "S" company in my collection. They were eventually part of the 24th ID, though the picture is from 1937. Written directly on the photo states it is a Service Company. 

Thank you, sir, for your interest and reply I most appreciate it.

ATB responded whit where it is in the verry book I have (Ya I gotta get ta reedin) but just as you said it denotes service and supply companies,

Thanks Jerry

[Remark]

Going back to the original poster's question about WW1 fake/restrike disks, you are on the right track.  However there are a lot of different types of fakes/restrikes/reproductions/modified disks out there posing to be something they are not.  Its pretty hard to sum up and even with experience there is not always a perfect way to tell if the disk is correct. 

 

I am learning all the time.  I have all the books and articles I can find about collar disks and WW1 units.  I read every post I can find about disks.  I look at all the repro sites.  And I talk to everyone I know who collects them.  In the end I stick with the thought if it looks good for everything that I know and the price is worth it to me I will buy it.  As time has gone on I have found a few mistakes and now those are just fillers in my collection.  I chalk up the bad purchase to a learning experience. 

 

The truth of the matter is about 90% or more of the sellers really do not have a clue how to even pick out a basic fake/restrike disks.  So you are on your own unless you have someone local who collects them and is willing to share their experience.  

[Panzerjunky]

4 hours ago, Remark said:

Going back to the original poster's question about WW1 fake/restrike disks, you are on the right track.  However there are a lot of different types of fakes/restrikes/reproductions/modified disks out there posing to be something they are not.  Its pretty hard to sum up and even with experience there is not always a perfect way to tell if the disk is correct. 

 

I am learning all the time.  I have all the books and articles I can find about collar disks and WW1 units.  I read every post I can find about disks.  I look at all the repro sites.  And I talk to everyone I know who collects them.  In the end I stick with the thought if it looks good for everything that I know and the price is worth it to me I will buy it.  As time has gone on I have found a few mistakes and now those are just fillers in my collection.  I chalk up the bad purchase to a learning experience. 

 

The truth of the matter is about 90% or more of the sellers really do not have a clue how to even pick out a basic fake/restrike disks.  So you are on your own unless you have someone local who collects them and is willing to share their experience.  

That is sound advice. And kind of what I do. if it looks good from every aspect that I know. and even check with my books and ref. If I am willing to lose the price. I'll buy it. if she comes up bad Down the road It's not a loss as I now know the difference. 

Thanks Jerry