Questions For 80s - 90s Vets

[NHCollector]

Hello! Ive had a few questions here and there that Ive wanted to ask vets who served in the US military (primarily Army and Marine Corps) regarding equipment because i cant seem to trust anything else online. 

 

Question 1● Was it common for Buttpacks to be issued with Alice gear or was it a private purchase thing 

 

Question 2● Was helmet cover art a thing in the 80s and 90s and if so what would be seen?

 

Question 3● what were common modifications the average soldier wouldve made to things like ALICE gear, PASGT helmets Etc?

 

Question 4● If a buttpack was had, what would most commonly be stored inside?

 

Any information about the period helps really, im very interested in learning about the average soldier of this period so do feel free to share anything else I havent said yet, thank you all and thank you very much for your service! 

-H

[Firaq]

I'm not a veteran so take this with a couple grains of salt, but I don't think buttpacks were issued to most troops unless it was unit-mandated. By the 80s it's officially called the 'Field training pack' which is an evolution of the M1967 field pack. The main difference being the era. M1967s were the early models, and the ones that are stamped 'field training pack' are later models with some slight differences to the earlier models like the specific nylon type. I've heard they were often used by mechanized troops who didn't want a bulky rucksack in their vehicle, and who needed to carry basic supplies if they had to bail out and lost access to their larger rucksack. It's a general utility pack, so contents could vary, but try going for hygiene stuff, socks, small equipment like cleaning kits and rations.. It's always good to keep a poncho and poncho liner along with enough stuff to survive for roughly 24 hours :D.

In manuals the GI flashlight is often seen on the suspender strap, but in the field they were often put in the grenade holders of your mag pouches, IIRC it was better for going prone, and they didn't come off as easily. rattling keepers or webbing straps were often taped or tied down with 100mph tape, and many purchased the 'Doughnut' foam piece from the PX to put in their PASGTs, check the 'PASGT Stats' thread for more info. names or blood types can often be seen written on the cat eye bands, but that probably doesn't count as a real modification. I haven't heard of or seen helmet art on helmets in the 80s, the army got a lot stricter about uniformity than what it was like in 'Nam. the most you'd see is names written on the inside of the cover to discourage theft, but definitely not anything like the Vietnam era M1s.

As buttpacks weren't standard issue for most, they rarely appear in manuals. Here's a link to a page with some info about it, which also has a link to an old article which mentions it. - https://ciehub.info/equipment/loadbearing/LLCE/FieldPack.html#gsc.tab=0

[Usa1918]

On 12/10/2025 at 7:20 PM, NHCollector said:

Hello! Ive had a few questions here and there that Ive wanted to ask vets who served in the US military (primarily Army and Marine Corps) regarding equipment because i cant seem to trust anything else online. 

 

Question 1● Was it common for Buttpacks to be issued with Alice gear or was it a private purchase thing 

 

Question 2● Was helmet cover art a thing in the 80s and 90s and if so what would be seen?

 

Question 3● what were common modifications the average soldier wouldve made to things like ALICE gear, PASGT helmets Etc?

 

Question 4● If a buttpack was had, what would most commonly be stored inside?

 

Any information about the period helps really, im very interested in learning about the average soldier of this period so do feel free to share anything else I havent said yet, thank you all and thank you very much for your service! 

-H

#1 Yes

#2 No

#3 I had the M1 helmet, and when we were down range I never saw any major modifications

#4 I stored my rain jacket, pants and poncho liner in mine

[Usa1918]

Everybody at Ft Carson, CO was issued a butt pack as a part of our TA 50 circa 2004-2007

Keith

[Rakkasan187]

Some good questions.. Here is my experiences while serving in the 101st Airborne Division in the early-mid 80s

 

Question 1● Was it common for Buttpacks to be issued with Alice gear or was it a private purchase thing

 

These were a private purchase item, however with that being said, our entire infantry company had them and used them. We would carry weapons cleaning kits, rations, extra gloves, spare tools and parts, extra first aid dressings and a number of other items. There was never a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) for what we carried in the butt pack, but the LBE was set up the same. Since we were light infantry and conducted many air assault insertions much of our gear was "tied down" with 550 cord looped through the gromets on the pistol belts and the equipment buckles so they would not come loose when either rappelling or fast roping. (We did far more rappels than fast ropes from UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters and rope ladder ascents and descents from the backs of chinook helicopters). Most of our buttpacks were of the Vietnam era canvas material. It was not until the first Gulf War did I see the nylon buttpacks starting to appear and  those were issued (in some units).

 

Question 2● Was helmet cover art a thing in the 80s and 90s and if so what would be seen?

 

I was in 3rd Battalion 187th Infantry Regiment (Rakkasans) and we were permitted to have a Torii Symbol in black sharpie/marker on the sides of our helmets. (I wore the M1 helmet at that time) The Tori symbol was symbolic of the 187th's history in WW2 and the post war occupation era in Japan.  The Rakkasan Torii combines the Japanese term for paratrooper with the traditional gate symbol representing a sacred entrance. It symbolizes honor, the gateway to Japan, and the unit’s history as the first to occupy Japan after WWII. I do not recall seeing the Torii symbol on anyone other than 3rd Battalion Soldiers. This was permitted by the Battalion Commander, LTC James D Hallums and the Brigade Commander, Colonel David Bramlett.

 

In early 1986 we transitioned to the PASGT Kevlar helmet and we were not permitted/authorized to have any markings on the Kevlar helmet cover. I PCS'd later that year and ended up going to the 502nd Infantry Regiment (Strike) in Berlin, Germany where the Kevlar was being used and we did not have any markings on the helmets other than sew on rank on the front. (Pin back rank was authorized but it was a pain to pin the rank and then the clutch fasteners would always break or the pin on the rank would break so it was mandated by Battalion SOP and our BN Commander LTC Michael Virgin, to use sew on rank. The helmet bands were marked with our last names in marker, and eventually that also changed to sewn name tape that was sewn to the helmet band for uniformity throughout the Battalion as well as the entire Berlin Brigade. I used a brown wash cloth in the webbing of the helmet since the black foam donut had not yet reached the clothing and sales store in Berlin. We usually were last on the list of installations to get these type of "comfort" items as they primarily went to units that were stationed in West Germany. I carried a VS-17 Panel Marker and extra map protractor in my helmet under the washcloth padding.  

 

Question 3● what were common modifications the average soldier wouldve made to things like ALICE gear, PASGT helmets Etc?

 

When I was stationed at Ft Campbell, I learned to have 2 sets of LBE. One for the field use and one for inspections. No matter how hard we tried to wash and clean our gear it was always dirty and some of it became unserviceable when the metal clips would break on the suspenders or the NBC Caps on the canteens would lose the outer cap protecting the inner part which connected to the drinking tubes on our M17 protective masks. The set of LBE that was my field gear was modified by removing the metal buckles and replaced with 550 cord. This would prevent breaking in the field as well as allowing for the Butt pack to rest easier on the bottom of the rucksack when we carried rucks. On the topic of rucksacks, initially we were issued the small rucksacks at CIF (Central Issue Facility) and personally I hated the small ruck since we had to carry so much stuff to the field. There simply was not enough room in the ruck to carry all the items necessary. The larger "Ranger rucksacks" were not an issue item at the time to units other than Ranger and SF units, but if you wanted to , you could purchase one (if they were available at surplus stores). The one most famous surplus shop at Ft Campbell and an iconic symbol was the store "BRICKS". This shop was located right outside Gate 4 main gate to Ft Campbell. It had been there for years and there was tons of military surplus from WW2, Korea, Vietnam era and sadly there was a massive fire at the shop in the late 80s and it was never rebuilt.

 

We finally had to petition the Brigade Commander to insist that the unit be issued large rucksacks due to the huge amount of gear we had to carry in the field. He was able to discuss the problem with our Division Commander and he in turn was able to get it authorized for the Infantry Units initially to receive the large "Ranger rucks". Eventually I understand the rest of the division units were also being issued the rucks through CIF. Initially I was a M47 Dragon Anti-Tank specialist and I had to carry the Dragon and both day and night sights. (The night site alone) was packed in a large ruck sack with a modified plastic shell liner that protected the site which was carried on my front with my small rucksack on my back that carried the day tracker, my Chemical Suit, extra uniform and boots, rations and other items. There literally was no room to carry anything other than what was prescribed for the field. 

 

Question 4● If a buttpack was had, what would most commonly be stored inside?

 

Once I got to Berlin, I had modified what I carried in the butt pack to adhere to the needs of the platoon and what we had to carry. As a squad leader I carried a large assortment of extra batteries for Night Vision goggles and sites, a claymore mine clacker, weapons kits, M60 machine gun wrench, M249 SAW scraper tool, extra Break Free gun oil, cleaning rags, extra protractors, about 50 feet of 550 cord, grease pencils, speed loader for 5.56 ammo, extra MRE, a small stove with fuel tabs and a few other odds and ends. 

 

In the sub topic REENACTING GROUPS AND REPRO GEAR there is a great reference to many of the items and things we carried.  You may want to look at this topic and you can see a lot of the COLD War and 80's -90's gear and uniforms...

 

As well as the 1980s Gear Questions Sub topic... GO TO POST #77 and you will see how I had my LBE and gear set-up.

 

Hope this answers some questions..

 

Leigh 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Usa1918]

Rakkasan’s answer was waaay better than mine

 

Keith

[usmcski]

On 12/10/2025 at 6:20 PM, NHCollector said:

Hello! Ive had a few questions here and there that Ive wanted to ask vets who served in the US military (primarily Army and Marine Corps) regarding equipment because i cant seem to trust anything else online. 

 

Question 1● Was it common for Buttpacks to be issued with Alice gear or was it a private purchase thing 

 

Question 2● Was helmet cover art a thing in the 80s and 90s and if so what would be seen?

 

Question 3● what were common modifications the average soldier wouldve made to things like ALICE gear, PASGT helmets Etc?

 

Question 4● If a buttpack was had, what would most commonly be stored inside?

 

Any information about the period helps really, im very interested in learning about the average soldier of this period so do feel free to share anything else I havent said yet, thank you all and thank you very much for your service! 

-H

Hey there!

 

My two cents as a 90’s-era Marine:

 

1. Never issued a butt pack, but anyone “in the know” bought one; they were indispensable in the field. Most certainly a private purchase item, especially given the bare-bones 782 gear we were issued in the ‘90s.

 

2. NEVER saw helmet “graffiti”. Closest thing was an iron-on EGA on the front of our helmet covers, replicated later on our three-color desert helmet covers and boonies in OIF I. In the late-90s, nametapes sewn on the back of our helmet covers began to appear.

 

3. Certain battalions in the Marine Corps demonstrated modifications to helmet covers. I recall the 7th Marines out of 29 Palms used torn burlap/cammie netting to break up the outline of their helmets (think pictures of troops in Panama). Not sure it was necessarily condoned, but possibly overlooked. I knew many fellow Marines who would zip-tie two ALICE M-16 mag pouches together per side for a total of four pouches on their cartridge belt, and hung their first aid kit off their butt pack to free up room for more canteens (several of us carried a two-quart canteen). A Leatherman always proved useful, as well as a roll of black electrical tape, often hung off of a carabiner. And of course, we always had the ubiquitous Ka-Bar hanging off of our cartridge belt somewhere. A wise man would have extra ALICE clips (or better yet, zip ties) somewhere in your kit. And don’t forget the ever-present MRE spoon on your PASGT flak vest loops, as well as a speed-loader for your M-16 magazines.

 

4. We stored anything and everything in our butt packs. Snivel gear (poncho and/or liner, gloves and wool inserts, beanie, spare socks, boot bands, spare skivvies, toilet paper/baby wipes, moleskin, etc), spare chow, sunflower seeds, dip, beanie weenies, 550 cord, face paint, chemlights, beef jerky, weapons cleaning gear, you name it. Anything that you would want on your person once you dumped your pack. You were only limited by how much space you had in your butt pack. Rakkasan did a phenomenal job, just adding my own Jarhead spin to his comments!

 

Hope this helps!

 

Semper Fi,

 

Ski

[Rakkasan187]

@ Keith and Ski,,

 

Guys, First... Thank you both for your service to our Nation.. and second, I am humbled by your comments about my detailed reply...

 

As I get older, my memories start to fade and by writing detailed accounts of my service, it serves a two fold purpose, first to part my knowledge and experiences off to the next generation as to what a US Army Infantryman did and what I carried from the 80s to the 2000s when I served (22 yrs) and secondly it serves as a record of my service that my family can also remember when I am no longer here. I have written and I am still writing my accounts as an Infantryman at Ft Campbell, KY, while I was stationed in Berlin and when I returned to the states. It is in manuscript format and is now well over 700 pages, but it is a very raw account of what I experienced and did and what I saw through my eyes. Some good moments mixed in with some not so good moments that tell my story. 

 

Best regards, stay safe

 

Leigh 

 

 

[NHCollector]

6 hours ago, usmcski said:

Hey there!

 

My two cents as a 90’s-era Marine:

 

1. Never issued a butt pack, but anyone “in the know” bought one; they were indispensable in the field. Most certainly a private purchase item, especially given the bare-bones 782 gear we were issued in the ‘90s.

 

2. NEVER saw helmet “graffiti”. Closest thing was an iron-on EGA on the front of our helmet covers, replicated later on our three-color desert helmet covers and boonies in OIF I. In the late-90s, nametapes sewn on the back of our helmet covers began to appear.

 

3. Certain battalions in the Marine Corps demonstrated modifications to helmet covers. I recall the 7th Marines out of 29 Palms used torn burlap/cammie netting to break up the outline of their helmets (think pictures of troops in Panama). Not sure it was necessarily condoned, but possibly overlooked. I knew many fellow Marines who would zip-tie two ALICE M-16 mag pouches together per side for a total of four pouches on their cartridge belt, and hung their first aid kit off their butt pack to free up room for more canteens (several of us carried a two-quart canteen). A Leatherman always proved useful, as well as a roll of black electrical tape, often hung off of a carabiner. And of course, we always had the ubiquitous Ka-Bar hanging off of our cartridge belt somewhere. A wise man would have extra ALICE clips (or better yet, zip ties) somewhere in your kit. And don’t forget the ever-present MRE spoon on your PASGT flak vest loops, as well as a speed-loader for your M-16 magazines.

 

4. We stored anything and everything in our butt packs. Snivel gear (poncho and/or liner, gloves and wool inserts, beanie, spare socks, boot bands, spare skivvies, toilet paper/baby wipes, moleskin, etc), spare chow, sunflower seeds, dip, beanie weenies, 550 cord, face paint, chemlights, beef jerky, weapons cleaning gear, you name it. Anything that you would want on your person once you dumped your pack. You were only limited by how much space you had in your butt pack. Rakkasan did a phenomenal job, just adding my own Jarhead spin to his comments!

 

Hope this helps!

 

Semper Fi,

 

Ski

Thank you so much ski for your information! I will definitely put all of these into consideration for my USMC 90s impression! Thank you for your service! -H

[NHCollector]

20 hours ago, Rakkasan187 said:

Some good questions.. Here is my experiences while serving in the 101st Airborne Division in the early-mid 80s

 

Question 1● Was it common for Buttpacks to be issued with Alice gear or was it a private purchase thing

 

These were a private purchase item, however with that being said, our entire infantry company had them and used them. We would carry weapons cleaning kits, rations, extra gloves, spare tools and parts, extra first aid dressings and a number of other items. There was never a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) for what we carried in the butt pack, but the LBE was set up the same. Since we were light infantry and conducted many air assault insertions much of our gear was "tied down" with 550 cord looped through the gromets on the pistol belts and the equipment buckles so they would not come loose when either rappelling or fast roping. (We did far more rappels than fast ropes from UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters and rope ladder ascents and descents from the backs of chinook helicopters). Most of our buttpacks were of the Vietnam era canvas material. It was not until the first Gulf War did I see the nylon buttpacks starting to appear and  those were issued (in some units).

 

Question 2● Was helmet cover art a thing in the 80s and 90s and if so what would be seen?

 

I was in 3rd Battalion 187th Infantry Regiment (Rakkasans) and we were permitted to have a Torii Symbol in black sharpie/marker on the sides of our helmets. (I wore the M1 helmet at that time) The Tori symbol was symbolic of the 187th's history in WW2 and the post war occupation era in Japan.  The Rakkasan Torii combines the Japanese term for paratrooper with the traditional gate symbol representing a sacred entrance. It symbolizes honor, the gateway to Japan, and the unit’s history as the first to occupy Japan after WWII. I do not recall seeing the Torii symbol on anyone other than 3rd Battalion Soldiers. This was permitted by the Battalion Commander, LTC James D Hallums and the Brigade Commander, Colonel David Bramlett.

 

In early 1986 we transitioned to the PASGT Kevlar helmet and we were not permitted/authorized to have any markings on the Kevlar helmet cover. I PCS'd later that year and ended up going to the 502nd Infantry Regiment (Strike) in Berlin, Germany where the Kevlar was being used and we did not have any markings on the helmets other than sew on rank on the front. (Pin back rank was authorized but it was a pain to pin the rank and then the clutch fasteners would always break or the pin on the rank would break so it was mandated by Battalion SOP and our BN Commander LTC Michael Virgin, to use sew on rank. The helmet bands were marked with our last names in marker, and eventually that also changed to sewn name tape that was sewn to the helmet band for uniformity throughout the Battalion as well as the entire Berlin Brigade. I used a brown wash cloth in the webbing of the helmet since the black foam donut had not yet reached the clothing and sales store in Berlin. We usually were last on the list of installations to get these type of "comfort" items as they primarily went to units that were stationed in West Germany. I carried a VS-17 Panel Marker and extra map protractor in my helmet under the washcloth padding.  

 

Question 3● what were common modifications the average soldier wouldve made to things like ALICE gear, PASGT helmets Etc?

 

When I was stationed at Ft Campbell, I learned to have 2 sets of LBE. One for the field use and one for inspections. No matter how hard we tried to wash and clean our gear it was always dirty and some of it became unserviceable when the metal clips would break on the suspenders or the NBC Caps on the canteens would lose the outer cap protecting the inner part which connected to the drinking tubes on our M17 protective masks. The set of LBE that was my field gear was modified by removing the metal buckles and replaced with 550 cord. This would prevent breaking in the field as well as allowing for the Butt pack to rest easier on the bottom of the rucksack when we carried rucks. On the topic of rucksacks, initially we were issued the small rucksacks at CIF (Central Issue Facility) and personally I hated the small ruck since we had to carry so much stuff to the field. There simply was not enough room in the ruck to carry all the items necessary. The larger "Ranger rucksacks" were not an issue item at the time to units other than Ranger and SF units, but if you wanted to , you could purchase one (if they were available at surplus stores). The one most famous surplus shop at Ft Campbell and an iconic symbol was the store "BRICKS". This shop was located right outside Gate 4 main gate to Ft Campbell. It had been there for years and there was tons of military surplus from WW2, Korea, Vietnam era and sadly there was a massive fire at the shop in the late 80s and it was never rebuilt.

 

We finally had to petition the Brigade Commander to insist that the unit be issued large rucksacks due to the huge amount of gear we had to carry in the field. He was able to discuss the problem with our Division Commander and he in turn was able to get it authorized for the Infantry Units initially to receive the large "Ranger rucks". Eventually I understand the rest of the division units were also being issued the rucks through CIF. Initially I was a M47 Dragon Anti-Tank specialist and I had to carry the Dragon and both day and night sights. (The night site alone) was packed in a large ruck sack with a modified plastic shell liner that protected the site which was carried on my front with my small rucksack on my back that carried the day tracker, my Chemical Suit, extra uniform and boots, rations and other items. There literally was no room to carry anything other than what was prescribed for the field. 

 

Question 4● If a buttpack was had, what would most commonly be stored inside?

 

Once I got to Berlin, I had modified what I carried in the butt pack to adhere to the needs of the platoon and what we had to carry. As a squad leader I carried a large assortment of extra batteries for Night Vision goggles and sites, a claymore mine clacker, weapons kits, M60 machine gun wrench, M249 SAW scraper tool, extra Break Free gun oil, cleaning rags, extra protractors, about 50 feet of 550 cord, grease pencils, speed loader for 5.56 ammo, extra MRE, a small stove with fuel tabs and a few other odds and ends. 

 

In the sub topic REENACTING GROUPS AND REPRO GEAR there is a great reference to many of the items and things we carried.  You may want to look at this topic and you can see a lot of the COLD War and 80's -90's gear and uniforms...

 

As well as the 1980s Gear Questions Sub topic... GO TO POST #77 and you will see how I had my LBE and gear set-up.

 

Hope this answers some questions..

 

Leigh 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Leigh! I can not understate how much I appreciate the answers that you and other veterans have given to this question! I will be sure to pass this information off to future reenactors and history buffs. Thank you for your very detailed and in depth explanation and I will be sure to implement these things into my own impressions. Thank you for your service! -H

[Rakkasan187]

H-

 

I am happy to know that there are members of our younger generation that take an interest in capturing the history of post Vietnam era Soldiers and Marines and our sister services. I will be more than happy to share my experiences with you and other members who wish to know more about the Cold War era..

 

Best regards, stay safe

 

Leigh

 

P.S.  I grew up in Salem, NH, so it's also nice to see a younger member here from the Granite State...

 

 

 

 

[easterneagle87]

Leigh @Rakkasan187 is spot on. I was at Ft. Campbell, '89-'93. Although I was an Aviator and an officer I saw the same stuff. There was the "Cav Store" right outside the main gate that was more new stuff than surplus. 

1. Not issued, but most of us had them.

2.  No helmet art, although by the late stages of Desert Shield/Storm I saw pictures of a few people with the upside down "V" that was seen on vehicles to ID them as coalition or "friendlies on the sides of their lids. Additionally, Not art, but many of us had sewn our Air Assault wings above our rank. I've seen the 82nd sew their jump wings above the rank as well. Just like it was done during the Vietnam era. It wasn't authorized, but it was tolerated.

3. The use of 550 cord on LBE's was pretty common and when you're young, you wanted the high speed/low drag look and it was very practical and tactically sound. The fewer rattles you made, the quieter you were. Taping those clips closed was a pain and usually the tape would break, get sticky and just look bad after a few trips to the field. 

4. Poncho liner and a extra MRE was in mine.

[The Rooster]

On 12/10/2025 at 8:20 PM, NHCollector said:

Hello! Ive had a few questions here and there that Ive wanted to ask vets who served in the US military (primarily Army and Marine Corps) regarding equipment because i cant seem to trust anything else online. 

 

Question 1● Was it common for Buttpacks to be issued with Alice gear or was it a private purchase thing 

 

Question 2● Was helmet cover art a thing in the 80s and 90s and if so what would be seen?

 

Question 3● what were common modifications the average soldier wouldve made to things like ALICE gear, PASGT helmets Etc?

 

Question 4● If a buttpack was had, what would most commonly be stored inside?

 

Any information about the period helps really, im very interested in learning about the average soldier of this period so do feel free to share anything else I havent said yet, thank you all and thank you very much for your service! 

-H

I joined Nov7th1981, Was never issued a Butt Pack but some guys had em. 

Yes people in my unit, me included wrote and drew stuff on our helmet covers.

Nothing crazy and nothing that was glaring or stood out too much.

Some guys carried knives attached to their lbe suspenders. When I carried the M60 I was issued a .45 and carried on my web belt.

I carried my own private purchase M7 bayonet on my web belt. For some odd reason, they did not issue us bayonets...?

Prob thought we'd cut ourselves ! lol??? I dont know why they didnt issue them?

i Wore two M14 ammo poches behind my M16 30 round pouches. I used them for smokes etc etc... 

No one ever said one word to me about them. Im not sure if it wasnt noticed? Or what? But I never heard a word about them.

Also had an old NCO advise me to attach the LBE suspenders to the belt about midway back instead of the front of the belt.

Had all the buckles etc secured with high speed tape. When I became a sergeant, I attached my personal .45 in black leather military holster to my web belt and always carried my .45 loaded. Keep in mind I was in the National Guard. In the Regulars or the Marine corps etc etc you prob never get away with that. Maybe because I was a Sergeant? It was never questioned about it or told to remove it.. No body ever said one word to me about it.. I always wore it there.

I also always wore a brown military towel around my neck out in the field to protect my neck and shoulders from the straps of the LBE the Pack

and whatever weapon i was carrying. Which was most important when I carried the M60 with all my gear. Had a bad experience once where the straps of all the gear

I was carrying, cut into my skin. A Vietnam vet clued me into the towel.

Never had a butt pack so I dont know what they put in them, but in can imagine, the poncho some socks smokes poggy bait etc etc.

I used those extra ammo pouches for similar reasons. To store small stuff that I needed. And that I could get to easily without 

having to dig through my pack.

I was Infantry.

 

[Gear Fanatic]

Though I am not a vet, I do know a USMC vet that served Reserve 1995-1999 and active 2000-2004 he was issued a butt pack in reserve as well as a lot of stuff that was surplus from his unit coming back from Somalia. He kept about 95% of his gear including the butt pack

[The Rooster]

31 minutes ago, Gear Fanatic said:

Though I am not a vet, I do know a USMC vet that served Reserve 1995-1999 and active 2000-2004 he was issued a butt pack in reserve as well as a lot of stuff that was surplus from his unit coming back from Somalia. He kept about 95% of his gear including the butt pack

They had to have stopped issuing butt packs like 1980? I was Army Guard Infantry and I went to basic in Jan 82

and I was never ever issued a Butt Pack. The guys that had them all bought them from surplus stores etc.

Your friend prob bought his. 1995 was way past their shelf life... so to speak... for lack of a better phrase.

I would be hard pressed to believe any unit was issuing butt packs in 1995. I was still in the guard in 1995.

No body by that time was wearing Butt Packs. Not a one.

There was a pass and review once down in Chicago, the entire Brigade. Everyone had to strip the extras from their LBE's

and wear their gear exactly the same and they issued bayonets for that one and after it was over, the took em back. They had a thing about those M7's ???

If you had stuff on your helmet cover you had to put a fresh one on.

Everyone had to be the same.

But out in the field you could make it the way it was comfortable, you could personalize it a bit.

For fit and convenience. Like how we wore the gas mask. Out in the field, I wore mine around my neck with the bag under my left arm. To wear it the regulation way, the dam thing would slip down all the time and pull my pants down. So I wore it where it worked.. Out in the field.

Eye wash was not important in the field. How you looked was not important.

First thing I always did when hitting the field is smear mud and dirt all over my Shinny spit shinned black boots.

And if at some point I put polish on them, Id smear dirt all over them again when I was done. 

You dont want shiny anything in the field.

 

 

[The Rooster]

I forgot, I also carried two canteens on my belt and a shovel. E tool.

a first aid pouch and a compass. Some guys carried the angle flashlights on the suspenders.

Always was using the dang Etool. lol How could I have forgotten....

and I carried another 2 canteens in my ruck. 

And right now after reading everyones posts and thinking back..

I cant believe how long ago it was now. How fast the time went.

I still have whats left of my old LBE. Il have to dig it out some time.

Here is my old steel pot which I was able to keep back in 86 when we turned these in for kevlars.

I turned in an extra I had and kept my issue M1.

My comment on the weather.. lol Any Infantryman can feel that one!!

lol

 

 

 

[Gear Fanatic]

Sweet helmet rooster, some nice personality 😊

 

on the topic of the butt pack I thought the same thing. The USMC vet I talked to specifically said it was issued to him at Pendleton’s during basic. This is what he told me verbally and was one of my personal gear inquires during an interview for a project. This is just what he told me.

[usmcski]

10 hours ago, Rakkasan187 said:

@ Keith and Ski,,

 

Guys, First... Thank you both for your service to our Nation.. and second, I am humbled by your comments about my detailed reply...

 

 

 

And thank you for yours, Leigh! I served from '92 to 2014 before I punched out of the gun club. SO many changes to equipment during that time, it was fascinating to experience. We went from soft PASGT flak jackets and bare-bones Kevlar helmets to ILBE Gear and Interceptor woodland vests (no SAPI plates) in OIF I, to finally plate carriers and lightweight helmets w/NVG mounts in Afghanistan in 2010. All the antiquated ALICE gear went by the wayside after 9/11 (although I still love my old ALICE pack, field jacket liner and poncho liner). The butt pack has to be right up there with one of the best "old" pieces of gear we had; I still wore mine during OIF I, I absolutely HATED the LBV, and I know I wasn't the only one. The "FILBE" pack with plastic frame was absolute garbage. The frame would crack after limited use, causing sharp pieces of plastic to poke you in the kidneys and upper back during humps. Before we deployed to Iraq in '03, I kept mine in the garage and went out to Oceanside to purchase a Becker Patrol Pack (ALICE pack on steroids). By the time I hit Afghanistan, I had a Coyote Camelbak Motherlode with a bunch of extra pouches attached for water, chow, ammo and other stuff (see photo). Could comfortably live out of it for about a week.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Semper Fi,

 

Ski

[Rhscott]

I am leery of anyone that says they got issued any 782 Gear or Army TA50 at boot camp/BCT and used it thru service. BCT/Boot Camp issued clothing for keeps, but equipment was returned to CIF for reissue and it was usually well worn gear.  In the 80-90-early 2000s field equipment was issued by CIF depending on unit of assignment on that base…ie a deployable unit on a base may have rated Goretex and 2 canteens but a base command/ garrison support unit assignment may not get issued that gear as they did not need it for operational use and every time you got orders to move you turned in all your junk back to CIF and got a clearance check off your command verified before you could go. Same thing at the base library, MWR and darn near every location required a personal visit and check off that you cleared that particular place.

people forget stuff and like to embellish things.

[atb]

I took Basic Training in early 1970, and the 1956 or 1961 "Butt" Pack was, of course, the standard issue. I received one at my next assignments, but after 1976, I never was issued another or its replacement, the Training Pack. The Training Pack could be purchased at Clothing Sales Store. I retired ,from the Army in 1992. 

[NHCollector]

20 hours ago, The Rooster said:

I joined Nov7th1981, Was never issued a Butt Pack but some guys had em. 

Yes people in my unit, me included wrote and drew stuff on our helmet covers.

Nothing crazy and nothing that was glaring or stood out too much.

Some guys carried knives attached to their lbe suspenders. When I carried the M60 I was issued a .45 and carried on my web belt.

I carried my own private purchase M7 bayonet on my web belt. For some odd reason, they did not issue us bayonets...?

Prob thought we'd cut ourselves ! lol??? I dont know why they didnt issue them?

i Wore two M14 ammo poches behind my M16 30 round pouches. I used them for smokes etc etc... 

No one ever said one word to me about them. Im not sure if it wasnt noticed? Or what? But I never heard a word about them.

Also had an old NCO advise me to attach the LBE suspenders to the belt about midway back instead of the front of the belt.

Had all the buckles etc secured with high speed tape. When I became a sergeant, I attached my personal .45 in black leather military holster to my web belt and always carried my .45 loaded. Keep in mind I was in the National Guard. In the Regulars or the Marine corps etc etc you prob never get away with that. Maybe because I was a Sergeant? It was never questioned about it or told to remove it.. No body ever said one word to me about it.. I always wore it there.

I also always wore a brown military towel around my neck out in the field to protect my neck and shoulders from the straps of the LBE the Pack

and whatever weapon i was carrying. Which was most important when I carried the M60 with all my gear. Had a bad experience once where the straps of all the gear

I was carrying, cut into my skin. A Vietnam vet clued me into the towel.

Never had a butt pack so I dont know what they put in them, but in can imagine, the poncho some socks smokes poggy bait etc etc.

I used those extra ammo pouches for similar reasons. To store small stuff that I needed. And that I could get to easily without 

having to dig through my pack.

I was Infantry.

 

Thank you so much rooster! Ive always been interested in 80s national guard and your info is bound to help me and some other people out! Thank you for your service! -H

[NHCollector]

12 hours ago, usmcski said:

 

And thank you for yours, Leigh! I served from '92 to 2014 before I punched out of the gun club. SO many changes to equipment during that time, it was fascinating to experience. We went from soft PASGT flak jackets and bare-bones Kevlar helmets to ILBE Gear and Interceptor woodland vests (no SAPI plates) in OIF I, to finally plate carriers and lightweight helmets w/NVG mounts in Afghanistan in 2010. All the antiquated ALICE gear went by the wayside after 9/11 (although I still love my old ALICE pack, field jacket liner and poncho liner). The butt pack has to be right up there with one of the best "old" pieces of gear we had; I still wore mine during OIF I, I absolutely HATED the LBV, and I know I wasn't the only one. The "FILBE" pack with plastic frame was absolute garbage. The frame would crack after limited use, causing sharp pieces of plastic to poke you in the kidneys and upper back during humps. Before we deployed to Iraq in '03, I kept mine in the garage and went out to Oceanside to purchase a Becker Patrol Pack (ALICE pack on steroids). By the time I hit Afghanistan, I had a Coyote Camelbak Motherlode with a bunch of extra pouches attached for water, chow, ammo and other stuff (see photo). Could comfortably live out of it for about a week.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Semper Fi,

 

Ski

It very much does help! Thank you kindly ski! Ill be sure to share this info with others.

 Thank you for your service! -H