Supposed Chaplain Wings

[fabiobelgio]

Any idea about these wings, supposed to be Chaplain ? Never seen something like that...

[JonG]

pics of the back & pin/catch?

[fabiobelgio]

pics of the back & pin/catch?

Here you are

[Teamski]

You will probably need to furnish a larger image, hehehe...

 

-Ski

[JonG]

You will probably need to furnish a larger image, hehehe...

 

-Ski

 

[Chap15]

In all my research, there were never such wings out there, except those made by dealers trying to make a buck.

They were never authorized and no one has yet to show a picture of a chaplain wearing them (I say this with fear that the dealers will photoshop a picture).

[101combatvet]

I have several in my collection.... the ones I have are original in my opinion. Not having the photographic evidence

is not keeping them out of my collection. I also have an army air corps officer collar brass made by Gemsco were the prop

was replaced by a cross.

 

In all my research, there were never such wings out there, except those made by dealers trying to make a buck.

They were never authorized and no one has yet to show a picture of a chaplain wearing them (I say this with fear that the dealers will photoshop a picture).

[Bugme]

I've got one exactly like yours that I found for just a few bucks in an Antique store many years ago. It was in a basket full of collar disc's and ribbons. It's obvious to me that these were never authorized nor, have I ever been able to find any kind of photographic evidence for it. Yet, I've held onto it these many years on the chance that it is legit. Mine was obviously put together by a jeweler. The cross is hallmarked: AMICO and the wings are marked: STERLING. Someone spent some money on having these made. So, I'm up in the air on these. I've added a picture of mine for reference here.

[101combatvet]

I also have one made by Amico.... I believe these to be period made and that's good enough for me.

[brian e]

hi all i believe that these are fantasy pieces from the 1970s when a regular jump wing was going for 10-20 for nice maker marked ww2 era wing and the greedy faker/dealers had them made up so they could sell wings for 40-50 these are special they would say.

i have seen way to many for them to be real kind of like the wings from the million dollar collection with stars of david, engineer castles, caducies, AA, an eagle, multiple combat stars and other assorted tidbits attached,

imho they are junk

there may have been one or two original pieces like these made during ww2 but i think most if not all were made up for pure monetary gain well after ww2

the only way i would believe that they were ww2 wings is to have a vet pull out a picture of him wearing them and then pulling out the wings and showing them to me otherwise i dont think i could be convinced they were real

i hope i didnt offend any one but this is just my opinoin on these wings

 

brian

[Bugme]

hi all i believe that these are fantasy pieces from the 1970s when a regular jump wing was going for 10-20 for nice maker marked ww2 era wing and the greedy faker/dealers had them made up so they could sell wings for 40-50 these are special they would say.

i have seen way to many for them to be real kind of like the wings from the million dollar collection with stars of david, engineer castles, caducies, AA, an eagle, multiple combat stars and other assorted tidbits attached,

imho they are junk

there may have been one or two original pieces like these made during ww2 but i think most if not all were made up for pure monetary gain well after ww2

the only way i would believe that they were ww2 wings is to have a vet pull out a picture of him wearing them and then pulling out the wings and showing them to me otherwise i dont think i could be convinced they were real

i hope i didnt offend any one but this is just my opinoin on these wings

 

brian

Didn't offend me. I've always wondered why a Chaplain, or better yet a large group of Chaplains, would have gone out of their way to modify his jump wings when they already had their collar crosses for identification. I have less than 5 dollars invested in my set so, it doesn't bother me and it makes for a cheap conversation piece. Who knows, maybe someone will get around to photoshopping one of these onto a uniform(As Chap15 mentioned) and I'll instantly make a profit on my set.

[101combatvet]

Hmmmmm.... I have a wing that I got from a widow of a vet that would put a chaplains wing to shame. Yes..... they did make them during the war

along with a whole host of other types some are "factory made" originals and others are custom made. Are there repros out there.... yes..... with a little knowledge you can narrow it down.

 

Didn't offend me. I've always wondered why a Chaplain, or better yet a large group of Chaplains, would have gone out of their way to modify his jump wings when they already had their collar crosses for identification. I have less than 5 dollars invested in my set so, it doesn't bother me and it makes for a cheap conversation piece. Who knows, maybe someone will get around to photoshopping one of these onto a uniform(As Chap15 mentioned) and I'll instantly make a profit on my set.

[usaf70]

Looks like they were made from a Glider Troops Badge.

 

USAF70

[Chap15]

Hmmmmm.... I have a wing that I got from a widow of a vet that would put a chaplains wing to shame.

What was the chaplains name? I will research it with my resources.

[101combatvet]

Maybe, I wasn't clear.... mine is a custom wing made for the soldier in England. My point was that wings were made for

custom order..... some were made or modified by jewelers; others were made at the factory to order in various configurations.

 

What was the chaplains name? I will research it with my resources.

[pfrost]

What was the chaplains name? I will research it with my resources.

 

I hope this is allowed, but Chap15 once posted a great thread here http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...rooper+chaplain showing many of his great uniforms. It is a great collection and should be studied and enjoyed!

 

1) I have to say, that my understanding is that the chaplain and rabbi wings are also fantasy pieces. I know a fellow in Southern Cal who sells them by the box load. Typically they show up in two different forms, one type is from a cut down vintage jump wing with a cross or star of David in place of the canopy. The other kind of wing has a cross or star of David (once I even saw the Islamic crescent) soldered on the front of the wing. More often than not, this second type of fantasy piece is on a cast wing and the added bits serve to hide the low quality of the canopy and risers on the wing.

 

This same fellow will also add MP crossed pistols, engineer's castles, medical device, EGA, a "homemade bazooka" or just about anything else you want to add to the front of the wing. Not to mention arrowheads, jump stars, oak leaf clusters, etc.

 

2) I have yet to see any of these wings that were actually die struck off an official die. They are almost always either cut down from original wings or put on fake cast wings. Up to a few years ago, I could frequently find a simple sterling pin back jump wing for less than 20$ and while I don't seem them that often since BoB came out, I still can find them for less than 40$ on regular basis at the flea markets.

 

3) A couple of advanced airborne collectors had told me over the years that these wings are almost total fantasy. That these men went through much of the same challenging training to earn their wings so that they could be their with their "men" when they jumped and take care of their spiritual needs, would have more than likely precluded them from trying to distinguish themselves by altering the jump wings they had worked so hard to earn. It makes no sense.

 

Patrick

[101combatvet]

I have a factory made chaplains wing still on the original card. I will agree that many fakes exist... to say that all

are fake is incorrect. Again, I have modified wings that have come direct from the vet or family.... sorry but they can only be original.

[pfrost]

Hello,

 

Can you show us some pictures? Were these made with the cross integral to the piece or was the cross added post-hoc to a factory-made piece? Considering how jealously General Yarborough guarded the patent for the jump wings. From this thread (post #28, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...hl=bb&st=20 ). Yarborough's patent "was valid for 3 1/2 years after it was approved on 2 February 1943. He filed this patent to prevent commercial knock offs of the this design as he didn't want anyone but paratroopers wearing the badge. I doubt that Yarborough "owned the dies", at the time all dies for the manufacture of approved insignia were considered property of the US Army Institute of Heraldry and it was common practice for makers to return dies to TIOH at the conclusion of the government contract."

 

Based on this, I think it would be VERY unlikely that factory made pieces of such unauthorized insignia under a patent would have been made and sold. Let me ask this, why are no factory-made jump wings available with jump stars or invasion arrowheads. These devices were always added to a jump wing later and were never made with them in place.

 

Patrick

[Chap15]

I have a factory made chaplains wing still on the original card. I will agree that many fakes exist... to say that all

are fake is incorrect. Again, I have modified wings that have come direct from the vet or family.... sorry but they can only be original.

Too bad...I was looking forward to names, pics.....now he is gone.

You will know a tree by its fruit.

[none]

Hello,

 

Can you show us some pictures? Were these made with the cross integral to the piece or was the cross added post-hoc to a factory-made piece? Considering how jealously General Yarborough guarded the patent for the jump wings. From this thread (post #28, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...hl=bb&st=20 ). Yarborough's patent "was valid for 3 1/2 years after it was approved on 2 February 1943. He filed this patent to prevent commercial knock offs of the this design as he didn't want anyone but paratroopers wearing the badge. I doubt that Yarborough "owned the dies", at the time all dies for the manufacture of approved insignia were considered property of the US Army Institute of Heraldry and it was common practice for makers to return dies to TIOH at the conclusion of the government contract."

 

Based on this, I think it would be VERY unlikely that factory made pieces of such unauthorized insignia under a patent would have been made and sold. Let me ask this, why are no factory-made jump wings available with jump stars or invasion arrowheads. These devices were always added to a jump wing later and were never made with them in place.

 

Patrick

The statement that a government contractor returned the dies to the TIOH is incorrect. The TIOH loans out hubs and in fact now requires that you use the government issued hubs for manufacture, this was not the case in WWII that is why you have so many different designs. A die is made from the hub and then the hub is returned. The dies are not returned.

 

Concerning Paratrooper badges- They are now manufactured with stars in place. Invasion arrowheads were never authorized for badges. http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/C...couterments.htm

[Tonomachi]

I've attached photos of three Chaplain wings in my collection. The first I've had for some time now that is pin back and made by Robbins. It is hard to make out but on the reverse at the base of the cross is the winged "R" logo for the Robbins Company. I bought this at either an insignia show or gun show over 20 years ago however I'm a little suspicious of this piece because I have come across a number of others made the same way at the Great Western Gun Show, Pomona, California, to include some made of gold colored metal. I found another that was made from an original South Vietnamese made US clutch back basic paratrooper wing. The chute was crudely cut out to make the cross. The last one is probably a jeweler modified piece made from a glider rider wing to be worn as a pendant.

[88thcollector]

Hi,

 

First, let me say that my lack of knowledge about wings is monumental. I have a few paratrooper ones with stars but I cannot tell if they are good or bad.

 

All I can add is, that way back in the 70's, I watched a famous and respected dealer sit and file canopies into crosses and start the aging process. He also showed me ones that he had jewelers modify. He also was having little gold crosses and other devices applied to original wings.

I am sure that they were pinned to original uniforms or put in a cigar box full of original insignia. He kept the supply limited and believable rather than cranking out enough to fill every flea market.

 

Also, lots of clutch back wings were converted to pin back.

 

Steve

[brian e]

Hi,

 

First, let me say that my lack of knowledge about wings is monumental. I have a few paratrooper ones with stars but I cannot tell if they are good or bad.

 

All I can add is, that way back in the 70's, I watched a famous and respected dealer sit and file canopies into crosses and start the aging process. He also showed me ones that he had jewelers modify. He also was having little gold crosses and other devices applied to original wings.

I am sure that they were pinned to original uniforms or put in a cigar box full of original insignia. He kept the supply limited and believable rather than cranking out enough to fill every flea market.

 

Also, lots of clutch back wings were converted to pin back.

 

Steve

HI Steve I know what you mean about clutchbacks being converted into pinbacks i was burned on ebay by a crest craft jump wing that is a pinback but started life as a clutchback they even removed the 23C marking couldnt tell in pictures but in hand you can tell its been f'd with brian

[Tonomachi]

Has anyone come across anything like this which is probably European made based on the rear marking of 800 RE and I can't make out the last letter. I picked this up at a flea market.

[Tonomachi]

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