One piece USMC Camo

[Toguix]

Hello,  

I recently saw in a collection (unfortunately I don’t have photos, but I could take some if I go back) a USMC one-piece camo uniform with USMC buttons. Like those found on the sleeves of P44 jackets or trousers.  

 

Have you ever seen this type of variant?  

I’ve always heard that these one-piece uniforms were Army issue, with star buttons, and not specific to the USMC with USMC-marked buttons.

 

Thank you very munch for your help !

 

[Gear Fanatic]

I do know that early on these army style one piece camouflage jumpers were issued to Raiders since there was a shortage of USMC P42’s. This didn’t last long and I only know of these being used in training in 42/43, usually the pictures are in SoCal, or in Australia. There are a few pictures. But I don’t know why one would have USMC buttons? Maybe they are replaced. 

[Toguix]

Hello, thank you for your feedback. 
I know that the 1st Marine Division and Carlson’s 2nd Raiders used one-piece camouflage suits during the New Georgia campaign, but I’ve never heard of a USMC-specific version with USMC buttons — that’s what raised my question! 
I was wondering if this is an original wartime modification or a postwar assembly. 
The uniform seems overall correct to me. 
I'm also surprised by the very bright green color of the stitching on the beach side of the camouflage.

[Toguix]

Does anyone have any ideas about this ? 

[Gear Fanatic]

My thoughts are either it was replaced buttons by a marine, or it could’ve been used by the marine corp when testing the Frogskin pattern. Since originally the pattern was developed by the army. And the Corp went and did field tests with an army one that was cobbled together in a way that they might have produced it later down the road. Certainly an I interesting piece.

[Rakkasan187]

17 minutes ago, Gear Fanatic said:

My thoughts are either it was replaced buttons by a marine, or it could’ve been used by the marine corp when testing the Frogskin pattern. Since originally the pattern was developed by the army. And the Corp went and did field tests with an army one that was cobbled together in a way that they might have produced it later down the road. Certainly an I interesting piece.

Where are you getting your information? These are your thoughts and not research through references are they? Instead of providing inaccurate speculations, provide some scholarly evidence and reference material for the OP to search and find the information they are seeking. The proper identification of the Marine Corps is with an "s".

 

Sorry to rant but many of these posts are filled with speculation and non-information and mis information.  Google State College and the University of You-Tube are not accurate for the individual looking for correct information..

 

 

To the OP Toguix...

 

I would suggest looking for several Marine Corps reference books:

 

US Marine Corps Uniforms and Equipment in WW2 by Jim Moran

United States Marine Corps (Uniforms, Insignia and Personal Items) by Harlan Glenn

782 Gear by Harlan Glenn

Grunt Gear by Alec. S Tulkoff

USMC Uniforms and Equipment 1941-45 by Bruno Alberti

Doughboy to GI: US Army Clothing and Equipment 1900-1945 by Ken Lewis (Although this is a predominantly US Army reference book, there is a section about the US Marine Corps camouflage uniforms (pages 74-76) 

 

I am at work right now and not in front of my USMC Reference material (All of the above in my reference library) but when I get a chance I will try to find the information you are looking for.

 

Leigh 

 

 

[Gear Fanatic]

Here’s what I based my educated idea on.

 

When I saw this first it reminded me of a photo in both Pradiers and Tolkoff’s books That shows 2 positively ID’d raiders in Australia conducting training on hand to hand combat. This photo (if I remember correctly) takes place sometime August-November of 1942. I could not find the photo online and I don’t have my books in my position currently, so I can’t show you the picture. But once I do I will. Anyways, they are both wearing the 1 piece jungle suit that you have posted (maybe without USMC buttons) so I thought well when did field testing for these for both the CORPS and the army take place, sure enough it’s in August that these 1 piece suits were sent over to Australia in August for evaluation and likely the marines also could have procured these for some sort of evaluation in Australia around the same time since in September they were still working on the specs for there P42’s which would not have been produced, tested and available till early 43’. I’m not sure as I don’t have my books like I said, but by this point, I don’t think the Marines had officially adopted the Frogskin pattern, so it would still make sense if they procured these for evaluation from army stocks in August of 42’ for evaluation since the P42’s weren’t available yet. So Based off of that my THOUGHT, is that these were procured from the original production that was being sent to Australia in August and used to evaluate the pattern. Hopefully that made some sense. I would have been able to explain it better if I had the information from books, but That’s what I have from memory asking what was in a friends Grunt gear and from the source posted below which is also based a lot off of tulkoffs research.

 

the below screenshots are from usww2uniforms.com which has some solid info on a wide array of topics. They also site a lot of where there information is found.

[Gear Fanatic]

2 hours ago, Rakkasan187 said:

Where are you getting your information? These are your thoughts and not research through references are they? Instead of providing inaccurate speculations, provide some scholarly evidence and reference material for the OP to search and find the information they are seeking. The proper identification of the Marine Corps is with an "s".

 

Sorry to rant but many of these posts are filled with speculation and non-information and mis information.  Google State College and the University of You-Tube are not accurate for the individual looking for correct information..

 

 

To the OP Toguix...

 

I would suggest looking for several Marine Corps reference books:

 

US Marine Corps Uniforms and Equipment in WW2 by Jim Moran

United States Marine Corps (Uniforms, Insignia and Personal Items) by Harlan Glenn

782 Gear by Harlan Glenn

Grunt Gear by Alec. S Tulkoff

USMC Uniforms and Equipment 1941-45 by Bruno Alberti

Doughboy to GI: US Army Clothing and Equipment 1900-1945 by Ken Lewis (Although this is a predominantly US Army reference book, there is a section about the US Marine Corps camouflage uniforms (pages 74-76) 

 

I am at work right now and not in front of my USMC Reference material (All of the above in my reference library) but when I get a chance I will try to find the information you are looking for.

 

Leigh 

 

 

I know for sure  this doesn’t show in grunt gear, or Pradiers book, which are both great sources for photos and research on uniforms and equipment. Not sure about 782 gear though. Also, nothing wrong with keeping me accountable. I checked grunt  gear, and USMC uniforms 1941-45, but saw nothing. Then I started reading through on grunt gear about the production dates and when the contracts were originally rewarded for the P42’s which caused me to go and look for information on the one piece. I really keep getting ahead of myself  and drift into to much speculation. I looked at all this before hand but just posted anyways and I deserve the callout.

[Rakkasan187]

This is not about calling anyone out, or keeping you accountable, that is not my responsibility or anyone else on here,, however I will say that you are creating your own bad reputation and by making false comments and statements your reputation is very questionable, and folks will not trust you or the knowledge you have (or don't have) simply based on your knee jerk comments. Hence the reason some members here reply to your comments in the way they do... It's not about being the first person to answer a post, it's about providing factual information that can be used and benefited for all. 

 

In addition, I would add that the OP needs to provide better images of the entire piece. (If possible) The quick images of what is seen (and not seen) can hold many of the unanswered questions. Are there makers tags? Without seeing the back, we can't confirm if it has the bi-swing back appearance due to the suspenders, (are the suspenders intact?) (Not that it matters in this case) but if it is an unaltered piece without the suspenders being removed then it is quite desirable since the Marines usually removed them due to the backside of the uniform riding high. Are the tightening tabs on both the sleeves and ankles? 

 

In Harlen Glenns Book there is an interesting bit of information regarding the confirmation of the one-piece suit being seen on Guadalcanal as early as January 12, 1943. A Navy Chaplain assigned to the 1st Marine Division was being relieved by the 6th Marines, and the Chaplain mentions a "camouflaged sniper's suit". The Chaplain mentioned that each Marine in the 6th had a camo sniper suit which was more than likely the SUIT, ONE PIECE, JUNGLE. This would be the identifying label if there is one in the uniform. The Chaplain, W. Wyeth Willard USNR mentions the encounter with the 6th Marines and the camo suit in his book: THE LEATHERNECKS COME THROUGH"

 

And to Clarify a one-piece camo jungle suit is pictured in Bruno Alberti and Laurent Pradier's book "USMC Uniforms and Equipment 1941-45 on page 53. ON this page is a color image of a model wearing the suit as well as a black and white National Archives photo showing two Marines in the Scout School wearing the one-piece suits and what is interesting is that the tightening tab can be seen on the Marine on the left-hand side on the sleeve. The image is too small to determine if the Black button is Marked US Marine Corps, and I don't want to guess or speculate...

 

These are the type of questions that need to be asked and later confirmed with better photos of all areas of the uniform, not just the buttons. 

 

One last note..

 

The Marine Corps books referenced above were a broad scope selection that would possibly include the uniforms in question but more importantly anyone interested in studying US Marine Corps Uniforms and Equipment should consider investing in many if not all of these books. I do acknowledge that this camo uniform is not covered in 782 Gear but there are several wartime images of Marines in various camo uniforms throughout.

 

Leigh 

 

 

 

 

[Gear Fanatic]

I’ll clarify what I meant, no mention or photos of the 1 piece suit with USMC buttons. I know about the one in pradiers book of the Navy talker, but it is not specified anything about the details of the jacket such as buttons. 

[The Rooster]

"SUITS, ONE PIECE, JUNGLE"

 

Here is the tag on the jungle suits. This is what the tag looks like before they get washed. 

Ive got 8 pairs of these and only one has a readable tag. But its a nos pair. I dont know how many different companies made these?

[The Rooster]

Heres a good link on these...

Mine have either wreaths or stars on the buttons...

 

And you can search these results....

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=SUIT,+ONE+PIECE,+JUNGLE+did+they+have+usmc+buttons?+site:www.usmilitariaforum.com&sca_esv=edb9f998570affa4&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU8eDT58KOAxWPnokEHXVTDugQrQIoAnoECBoQAw&biw=1581&bih=882&dpr=1

 

 

The last post is from Flageguy RIP.....

Heres his last paragraph in that post.... Notice the very last sentence......

 

"The Suit in the pic has all 13-star buttons and was made under the Army's "W 669" contract designation. I have another one made by "H.D. Lee Mercantile Co." which has the star/wreath dungaree buttons, but this one is Army contract as well; also have an M1938 Mackinaw with these buttons (also an Army-contract Coat). It's been my own contention that whatever was available in stock was put to service; I used to have a pair of the later-production M1944 Marine 'flage Trousers which were fitted with flat pup tent buttons (below). Now, I wish I would have kept 'em just for that reason. One thing I've never seen, though, is an Army piece with USMC buttons! "

 

Here is another maker... there were several.......

[The Rooster]

From what I've read....these were made by many different companies under Army contracts.

Possibly some were made under USMC contract with USMC buttons? Seems reasonable?

I have one pair that differs from all the others as there are buttons on the chest pocket flaps instead of the snaps.

Strange.....  huh?

[Gear Fanatic]

These seem to be fairly inconsistent when it comes to production. Different kinds of patterns, buttons, replaced snaps instead of buttons? Maybe it was used as a simplification instead of having to install the snaps and the buttons, instead just do buttons. These were pretty complicated garments for what they are. 

[P-59A]

4 hours ago, Gear Fanatic said:

I’ll clarify what I meant, no mention or photos of the 1 piece suit with USMC buttons. I know about the one in pradiers book of the Navy talker, but it is not specified anything about the details of the jacket such as buttons. 

Gear, Again...we talked about this before. Rakkasan187 is seeing the same thing and he is right. Dr. Jordan Peterson has a style of writing that might work for you. Write it down on paper first then look for the weak areas and fix those then look for more weak areas and fix those. Get your thoughts together, get it right and then present it only after you are confidant you stand on solid ground. May I suggest you pick one lane and learn everything about that one lane before you expand. Right  now you all over the page. You are just spread too thin. It just makes it hard to read anything you write. I know your a kid, but this is not kiddie world. Man up. OK?

[Gear Fanatic]

Understood

[Toguix]

Thanks for all your replies. As mentioned before, unfortunately I don’t have many pictures except for the additional ones below. Everything looks OK to me, but the USMC buttons are really intriguing.

 

 

[Toguix]

Hello,  

I've done extensive research through archives and period photos, and I haven't been able to find any trace of a USMC-issued uniform or contract piece that could feature this type of button.  

I'm not quite sure what to think of this uniform.  

I've only seen one person mention a similar purchase on eBay and post about it here on the forum.

[blitz67]

“Gear, Again...we talked about this before. Rakkasan187 is seeing the same thing and he is right. Dr. Jordan Peterson has a style of writing that might work for you. Write it down on paper first then look for the weak areas and fix those then look for more weak areas and fix those. Get your thoughts together, get it right and then present it only after you are confidant you stand on solid ground. May I suggest you pick one lane and learn everything about that one lane before you expand. Right  now you all over the page. You are just spread too thin. It just makes it hard to read anything you write. I know your a kid, but this is not kiddie world. Man up. OK?

 

not much can be said about this comment or the commenter. I can only think of one word to accurately describe him……….as!ho!e

 

 Nothing gear fanatic said or posted was incorrect or misinformation, he stated his opinion and that was it.  Rhakkasan187 also needs to get a grip of reality!!!  
 

“This is not about calling anyone out, or keeping you accountable, that is not my responsibility or anyone else on here,, however I will say that you are creating your own bad reputation and by making false comments and statements your reputation is very questionable, and folks will not trust you or the knowledge you have (or don't have) simply based on your knee jerk comments. Hence the reason some members here reply to your comments in the way they do... It's not about being the first person to answer a post, it's about providing factual information that can be used and benefited for all”

 

 

I trust gear fanatics knowledge a lot more than I would ever trust you!   Look at you and what you posted!!  P-59A and Rhakkasan187 think they are the old school all knowing great military collectors. Quoting old books and old knowledge.   Books are irrelevant in the age of the internet, you two are the kind of people that steer people away from this hobby.