327th (101st Airborne) Collar Brass Group

[CMT04]

I have never had a nice complete set of 101st insignia but I am happy to say I found a great group today. I don’t know what it is worth exactly but I am pretty sure I didn’t over pay too much. It has both collar brass, the duis, and wings.

[otter42]

Very nice group, like it. Any name to go with it? 

[CMT04]

37 minutes ago, otter42 said:

Very nice group, like it. Any name to go with it? 

Yes on the piece of paper with it, it’s named to a soldier who received a battle field commission. JD Weatherford

[Tonomachi]

Nice grouping.  Regarding the officer collar insignia with the numbers being soldered on top of the bar it is my understanding that this dates it to post WW2.  Everything else in this grouping appears to date to WW2.  

[Gear Fanatic]

Nice little group I’d say you made out okay to say the least! This may be a nice little grouping to put in a shadow box display of sorts, especially since it’s named and not would be even better if you could find a picture of the GI to go along with it! Congrats on the find 👍

[CMT04]

10 hours ago, Tonomachi said:

Nice grouping.  Regarding the officer collar insignia with the numbers being soldered on top of the bar it is my understanding that this dates it to post WW2.  Everything else in this grouping appears to date to WW2.  

thanks, I may cancel this if possible then. It was listed as wwii and the collar brass was the main reason I wanted it but now I know. I knew the flat back clutches were wwii. But I’m guessing someone stuck those on post wwii brass. Not sure I can rationalize $700 if only the other items are war time. What year did they start moving the numbers to the top of the bar instead of on front? If they were right after the war I may choose to live with it but at this time I think I’m going to save my money for a wwii group.

[Allan H.]

On 6/21/2025 at 10:30 AM, CMT04 said:

thanks, I may cancel this if possible then. It was listed as wwii and the collar brass was the main reason I wanted it but now I know. I knew the flat back clutches were wwii. But I’m guessing someone stuck those on post wwii brass. Not sure I can rationalize $700 if only the other items are war time. What year did they start moving the numbers to the top of the bar instead of on front? If they were right after the war I may choose to live with it but at this time I think I’m going to save my money for a wwii group.

OK, now I am scratching my head in wonder. You obviously put some dollars into this group in order to secure it (I was the bidder before your offer was accepted). My thought being that you should have an idea of what you're buying before you pull the money out of your wallet. I could very easily just keep my mouth shut, let you send the group back to Paul and then see if I can buy it cheaper, or perhaps I can allow you another point of view to provide some additional perspective.

 

I'm going to lay a little bit of knowledge on you and shake up some of the prevailing "collector thought" while we are at it. I've been collecting WWII airborne for almost 50 years now, and in the realm of airborne officers' numbered collar brass, I would challenge the group to show me a more complete collection. The prevailing thought is that the numbers should be affixed to the front of the bar on WWII insignia. You'll see loads of examples in the various posts of WWII numbered collar brass. Most of the Meyer examples that you see in the photos have the Meyer shield and usually "MeyerMetal" logo on the back sides of the rifles. You will also find Meyer marked brass like what is in this grouping- a different Meyer marking and the devices applied to the top of the bar. Does this make it post war? Many collectors think so, but I'm not sold on the idea. One of the pieces of brass in my collection is a pair of crossed rifles with the number 194 affixed on top of the bar. Post war, right? Except that the 194th was de-activated in 1945 and was reorganized as the 194th Armor post war. There should be no reason for 194th Infantry devices to have been made after 1945. Is it possible that they were made to deceive? That is always a possibility, but if that were the case, I would expect someone to go after a unit that had a lot more appeal than the 194th Glider Infantry. 

 

My take on these is that the 327th Infantry brass that you have is from the 1945 timeframe. The German made numbered brass also has the numbers on top of the bars instead of being affixed to the front. Honestly, I think this was done so that the numbers were easier to read than the examples that are front mounted to the bars. 

 

So, you need to ask yourself if you are comfortable with all of the insignia being of the same vintage (which it all is) and whether you think you could get a better deal out there than what you paid (I was far more interested in the signatures than the insignia, but it all appears to have come together).  I don't think you can find a better deal. Finally, if the seller were trying to cheat the community, it could have all been mounted on a jacket and attributed to Weatherford which would have commanded a SIGNIFICANTLY higher price tag.

 

Allan

[atb]

51 minutes ago, Allan H. said:

OK, now I am scratching my head in wonder. You obviously put some dollars into this group in order to secure it (I was the bidder before your offer was accepted). My thought being that you should have an idea of what you're buying before you pull the money out of your wallet. I could very easily just keep my mouth shut, let you send the group back to Paul and then see if I can buy it cheaper, or perhaps I can allow you another point of view to provide some additional perspective.

 

I'm going to lay a little bit of knowledge on you and shake up some of the prevailing "collector thought" while we are at it. I've been collecting WWII airborne for almost 50 years now, and in the realm of airborne officers' numbered collar brass, I would challenge the group to show me a more complete collection. The prevailing thought is that the numbers should be affixed to the front of the bar on WWII insignia. You'll see loads of examples in the various posts of WWII numbered collar brass. Most of the Meyer examples that you see in the photos have the Meyer shield and usually "MeyerMetal" logo on the back sides of the rifles. You will also find Meyer marked brass like what is in this grouping- a different Meyer marking and the devices applied to the top of the bar. Does this make it post war? Many collectors think so, but I'm not sold on the idea. One of the pieces of brass in my collection is a pair of crossed rifles with the number 194 affixed on top of the bar. Post war, right? Except that the 194th was de-activated in 1945 and was reorganized as the 194th Armor post war. There should be no reason for 194th Infantry devices to have been made after 1945. Is it possible that they were made to deceive? That is always a possibility, but if that were the case, I would expect someone to go after a unit that had a lot more appeal than the 194th Glider Infantry. 

 

My take on these is that the 327th Infantry brass that you have is from the 1945 timeframe. The German made numbered brass also has the numbers on top of the bars instead of being affixed to the front. Honestly, I think this was done so that the numbers were easier to read than the examples that are front mounted to the bars. 

 

So, you need to ask yourself if you are comfortable with all of the insignia being of the same vintage (which it all is) and whether you think you could get a better deal out there than what you paid (I was far more interested in the signatures than the insignia, but it all appears to have come together).  I don't think you can find a better deal. Finally, if the seller were trying to cheat the community, it could have all been mounted on a jacket and attributed to Weatherford which would have commanded a SIGNIFICANTLY higher price tag.

 

Allan

Very good points, except the 194th Armor, a National Guard unit descended from the 136th Infantry.  Same with the 194th Armored Brigade. It is not related to the WW2 194th Infantry. The armored brigade descends from the 194th Infantry Brigade of the 97th Division. It became the 194th Armored Brigade in 1962 after various redesignations, none of which involved the 194th Infantry. The only thing these units have in common are the number "194."go

[KurtA]

If I were to drop big bucks on no-doubt-about WW2 airborne brass, I’d hold out for examples with the Meyer Metal /Shield logo.  

[Spartan19]

I just read through all the comments on this post and I am going to agree with Allan H. If you are going to spend that kinda of money on a group like this you better know what you are buying. Now to the others issue at hand at least for me. I cant stand it when someone buys something and then someone says something could be post war and then gets mad and cancels their purchase. This isn't good buyer ethics especially if you have knowledge of what you are buying. Another thing to mention is technically the war in Europe ended in April 1945 so in a lot of people's opinions anything after April 1945 is considered post war. In my opinion post war is May 1945 to December 1946 however one can argue that post war is 1946 to 1950 at witch time the korean war started. But to say the seller is lying about it being Ww2 and everything isn't a good look. 

 

But after all its your money so you can do as you please with it.