Pal 1943 bayonet 16inch version

[Jeret]

I’ve had this bayonet for awhile now and was wondering what the forum thought of this bayonet? I know some info on it but no to much. 
 

 

[MSB59]

That is in incredible bayonet in great condition. I just brought home an M1903. They'd look great together. Any thought of selling? Regardless you have what appears to be a pristine piece of history there!

[ccyooper]

Check under the tabs to see who marked your scabbard, the color looks to be a post war 50’s contract.  Nice looking group.  Regards 

[Jeret]

Thanks for the information. 

[Jeret]

This is under the scabbard. 
 

[Misfit 45]

Wow, CCYOOPER was right.   Post war scabbard.

Marv

[tthen]

19 hours ago, Misfit 45 said:

Wow, CCYOOPER was right.   Post war scabbard.

Marv

Ok, I'm confused or maybe just uninformed. So they cut a bunch of 16" bayonets and scabbards during WW2 to 10" configuration, then they made scabbards for the 16" bayonets that weren't cut down in the 1950s?? Do I have that right?

[Rhscott]

1 hour ago, tthen said:

Ok, I'm confused or maybe just uninformed. So they cut a bunch of 16" bayonets and scabbards during WW2 to 10" configuration, then they made scabbards for the 16" bayonets that weren't cut down in the 1950s?? Do I have that right?

No info on if they did not did not do just that; but what you ask is completely plausible. We often have right hands that have no idea what the left hand is doing…..or care either. Just look at USAid today…….

[m60a1d66]

The US Army had a Shot Gun with a Bayonet Lug to mount a 16 inch bayonet. Scabbards would be part of the Issue. These Shot Guns and 16 inch bayonet were used for riot control.

[m60a1d66]

13 minutes ago, m60a1d66 said:

The US Army had a Shot Gun with a Bayonet Lug to mount a 16 inch bayonet. Scabbards would be part of the Issue. These Shot Guns and 16 inch bayonet were used for riot control.

 

 

Info From 1962 Dated TM

[Rhscott]

7 hours ago, m60a1d66 said:

 

 

Info From 1962 Dated TM

Yes.  Same body, different metal collar as the M1917 bayonet was longer than the M1905.  

[everforward]

Interesting thread. I was curious about my own PAL bayonet so I opened the safe and took a look, and what’d ya know….’50s scabbard. It’s always cool to learn new things. So your bayonet has company now. ;-)

[Jeret]

Very interesting, didn’t know they used 16” ww2 bayonets after ww2. 

[everforward]

23 minutes ago, Jeret said:

Very interesting, didn’t know they used 16” ww2 bayonets after ww2. 

 

Most certainly with Trench Shotguns, as was posted earlier. Limited use but they were present.

[tthen]

2 hours ago, everforward said:

 

Most certainly with Trench Shotguns, as was posted earlier. Limited use but they were present.

I have one last parting shot then I'll leave it alone. The OPs bayonet and scabbard are of the 16" M1905 configuration. The M1917 bayonet would not fit the 1905 scabbard due to blade length and the retention tabs on the 1905. There was a purpose built plastic scabbard for the M1917 for that reason starting in about 1944 and continuing through the mid 1960s.

Still wondering why there would be a contract in the 50s for M1905 scabbards. Oh well, sorry for the long winded post. I'm done

[everforward]

1 hour ago, tthen said:

Still wondering why there would be a contract in the 50s for M1905 scabbards. Oh well, sorry for the long winded post. 

 

Right, the 'why' is something I'd like to know too...my take on it is that in the post WW2 era, the only weapon I can think of that used the longer bayonet was a trench gun. I don't have any hard evidence one way or another.

[Rhscott]

5 hours ago, tthen said:

I have one last parting shot then I'll leave it alone. The OPs bayonet and scabbard are of the 16" M1905 configuration. The M1917 bayonet would not fit the 1905 scabbard due to blade length and the retention tabs on the 1905. There was a purpose built plastic scabbard for the M1917 for that reason starting in about 1944 and continuing through the mid 1960s.

Still wondering why there would be a contract in the 50s for M1905 scabbards. Oh well, sorry for the long winded post. I'm done

Well they also made the bayonets in the 1960s.  Contracts for the M1917 bayonet were awarded due to low to no stocks of them to issue with the then new Winchester 1200 trench guns.  The bayonets were made in Canada.   They discovered in WW2 that a huge number of the leather scabbards had deteriorated due to poor storage and also good ones were issued to hold M1905 bayonets as substitute standard again due to low stocks of the proper bayonet scabbard for them.  You see a lot of 1917 scabbards in 1941-42 pix holding M1905 bayonets.

 

pix 1.  USA 1942

pix 2 UK, freshly arrived US troops, 1942 

[tthen]

2 hours ago, Rhscott said:

Well they also made the bayonets in the 1960s.  Contracts for the M1917 bayonet were awarded due to low to no stocks of them to issue with the then new Winchester 1200 trench guns.  The bayonets were made in Canada.   They discovered in WW2 that a huge number of the leather scabbards had deteriorated due to poor storage and also good ones were issued to hold M1905 bayonets as substitute standard again due to low stocks of the proper bayonet scabbard for them.  You see a lot of 1917 scabbards in 1941-42 pix holding M1905 bayonets.

 

pix 1.  USA 1942

pix 2 UK, freshly arrived US troops, 1942 

Yes, M1905 bayonets in M1917 scabbards, but no M1917 bayonets in M1905 scabbards. Won't work. Oops, sorry I said I was done . Great pictures thanks for posting.

[ScottN]

DOH! It looks like I bit too and checked my scabbard as well… How about that? The question still stands to reason why did they produce more of these scabbards in the 50s? The shotguns that took bayonets up until the 1970s and later(I believe) only took the M 1917 bayonet which do not fit into the scabbards. I do not believe the M 1905 bayonet ever fitted to a trench/riot shotgun. Hmmmmm