My M16A1 demilled collection

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Well I finally got around to making this post, I don't have a crazy amount of A1 demilled parts. But it's enough to at least get a post started on this forum. Feel free to use any of these pictures as references as these demilled parts have help me out when identifying A1 parts. I will also keep updating this post, when I add more M16A1 demilled parts to my collection I will make sure to update with pictures.

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

I will start this post off with a H and R M16A1 lower: here I have a H and R lower, the serial number is 2,078,705 which would dated this to early 1969. It has a DOD stamp on the back which most demill H and R receivers you come across do. It has a intact hammer, bolt release, and complete mag release. How you tell if the hammer is H and R is look for a number inside of a circle. Some H and R hammers will have a H inside of a circle too. So for example some hammers have both a number and an H inside separate circles. This one just has a number, bolt catches are the same way, look for a number and a circle however they will not have a H inside of a circle just a number. GM Hydra-matic bolt release also have a number inside a circle. Unfortunately I don't have a GM bolt release to compare it to. There is a way to tell the difference but without having one it's hard to explain. Interestingly both the bolt catch and hammer have a 3. Either that's a coincidence or they were originally with the lower when it was built. I personally believe its original to the gun but there's no way to prove that. Lastly some people claim that H and R mag release are unique and different from colts. However I have tried to compare the two and personally I really don't see a difference. If you can spot the difference in the colt I'll show later then let me know. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Second one is also a H and R lower but it's stripped. Serial number is 2,093,239 if I had to guess would be in the range of 69-70. This lower has the DOD stamp on the back but it's a bit more clean looking then the first one. This lower also came with a butt stock but I decided not to show it. Sense there is not a lot to talk about on this lower. I'm going to share some info pulled from small arms review that helps me dated H and R serial numbers.

 

This has been copy pasted from small arms review: Estimated ceiling prices with non-reoccurring startup costs were: first year production of 60,000 rifles at $250.00 each, second-year production 180,000 rifles at $150.00 each. The prices did not include the reoccurring cost of $8.68 for seven magazines, or the $4,500,000 and 5.5% royalty paid to Colt. H&R’s contract was DAF03-68-C-0045 dated 19 April 1968 for 240,000 rifles at a cost of $170.43 each. The first delivery was made in December of 1968, the final delivery was made March 1971. All H&R M16A1 rifles were assigned serial numbers in the 2,000,000 range.

 

So if you go by this info, any demill lower with serial number 60,000 and under dates to 1968. Anything past that gets hard to dated because it doesn't state how many rifles were delivered by 1969. It also gets confusing because the government claims they only order 240,000 lowers. However, I have seen demills sell with serial numbers going past 240,000. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Next one is an almost complete colt lower: Unfortunately the front part of the lower was torch cut, resulting in the colt logo and most of the serial number being cut. The last 4 digits of the serial number reads 4833. This colt lower would dated somewhere between 1967-1971/72. After 72 they took COLT AR-15 out and just had the colt horse with the government markings. The Safe, Semi and Auto markings are only marked on the left side. From my understanding (I could be wrong about this information so please correct me if I am), post Vietnam M16A1s had these marked on both sides. While Vietnam era M16A1s only had them on the left. This lower is almost complete really just missing the butt stock and take down pins. The hammer is different from the above H and R. How you tell if it's a colt hammer, it will have a number inside of a C. Like the H and R markings, sometimes the colt hammers will also have a C inside of a circle next to a number like what's shown. The bolt catch is not numbered however there is usually a C marked on the side. I can't remember if colt bolt catches are numbered on the side too or if they are just C marked. The trigger and selector switch still work. As shown in the photo the selector switch can move freely as it should. Colt trigger, disconnector, and selector switch should all be marked with a number inside a C. The trigger and I think disconnector will also sometimes be marked with a C next to a number. I honestly can't remember if colt auto sears are marked. If I remember correctly I think there is a C marked on the auto sear. It's been awhile since I have taken it apart so I could be wrong. The grip is Colt how you tell can tell, H and R grips have a number inside a circle. GM will have a number inside a G and Colt will sometimes have a number next to a C marking. But this one has a B marking next to what is called the wheel marking. I'm not knowledgeable on colt grip markings so I couldn't tell you what that means or dates too. If I had to guess these two pieces were probably not demilled as one. If you look closely (circled in red) you can see what appears to be the hammer pin. Again if you guys can spot the difference between the H and R mag release and the Colt let me know because it looks the same to me. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Last one: two GM Hydra-matic uppers, one has been torch cut completely in half. Nothing really special with that one, the second one however has more to it. How you can tell these are GM Hydra-matic uppers is the color. That stainless steel/light gray color is mainly only seen with GM uppers. That rectangle looking thing on the second upper, the seller claims to be an early cage code. I cannot confirm if that's true or false. The second thing this upper has is a cut charging handle. GM charging handles are unique in the fact they are the only ones with dots on the back. How you tell if it's a GM charging handle look for 6 dots (I numbered the dots in red in the last photo). This one has a hole in the middle of the charging handle. I have seen some with holes and some without. I compare the GM charging handle with a colt, as you see colts don't have dots while the GMs do. The Colt charging handle pictured is original M16A1. It was in bad condition when I got it, so I had someone sandblast it (It's still usable so I'm going to get it cerakoted and I'm going to reuse it, that's why it's silver and not parkerized). Unfortunately I don't have an H and R charging handle to compare with the other two. That's all I have for demills as said I will update this post as I add more demills to the collection.

[RG 67]

Its nice that you are making this i.d. thread, at arfcom it might even become a sticky in the retro forum. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Well, I finally got my first GM Hydra-Matic demilled lower. Nothing really special about it, just a stripped lower. It's a little hard to see in the photo but it's got a large DOD stamp. GMs are known for having large DOD stamps and H and R's are small. Serial number is 3,391,687, according to the information I gathered. GM Hydra-Matic had a one-year contract, number DAAF03-68-C-0048, dated April 19, 1968, for 240,000 M16A1 rifles. On July 18, 1969, GM Hydra-Matic was awarded a second contract, DAAF03-70-C-002, for an additional 229,217 M16A1 rifles. All GM M16A1 rifles were serial numbered in the 3,000,000 range. So with that information GM made a total of 469,217. Going by this information my GM lower probably dates to 1970. Now this information can be totally wrong if any of this info is incorrect correct me in a reply. I also want to say, I was wrong about the bolt catch. There is no way of telling the difference between a GM and H and R bolt catch as I thought there was. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Ok, it's time I stopped being lazy and finally post more demills. I picked up a ton of demills, the first one is a XM16E1 the earliest lower receiver I have in my collection. The XM16E1 was made from 1964 - 1967 when it was replaced by the M16A1. It's got a serial number of 50092. Now I'm pretty sure there should be one more number in front of the 5. This would be a pretty rare lower if it was the 50092 made. I'm almost 100% positive there is another number in front of the 5. However, there will be no way of knowing what that number would have been since it was torched cut when they demilled the lower. I have tried to look it up and get info on dating XM lowers using the serial number. However, I could not find any information on dating XM lowers. Because it has partial fencing, I'd guess it dates to either 1964 or 1965. The lower has a broken bolt release, the bolt release is the later version. The early versions were serrated at the bottom. I'm not sure when the later ones were introduced but I have seen later bolt release on XM lowers. The second half of the lower is also XM16E1, the early colt lowers had colt patent fire arms as roll markings and also had MFG. CO.. Later Colt changed the roll markings to firearms division and remove the MFG. CO. roll markings from the lower. Also the early Colt lowers had a pin near the buffer tube, that pin was meant to locked the buffer tube in place. The later XM lowers didn't have that. The upper is also XM16E1 as it doesn't have any forge codes. The early uppers lacked forge codes, forge codes came later around 67 - 68 but some people claim 70 - 71. From the information I have gathered it seems to be 67-68 but if I'm wrong let me know in a reply. Colt uppers also lacked forge flash, that was just a HR/GM thing. The Colt upper has a rack number 698 engraved on the back. Some Colt uppers have rack numbers and some don't. I have never seen a rack number on a HR or GM upper but that doesn't mean they don't exist I just haven't seen one. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

I picked up another H and R demilled lower, unfortunately most of the serial number has been torched cut. Leave us with only 9420 making it impossible to date without the first 3 numbers. It has a DOD stamp and came with the hammer, mag release and bolt release. The bolt release is an upside down 4. Some collectors claim an upside down number is GM and right side up is HR. However, the truth is there is no way of 100% knowing. I have talked to collectors who have seen untouched GM/HR lowers that have both had an upside down number. So unless you see one untouched from the day it left the factory there is no way of knowing. The hammer has a 1 inside of a circle. And as discussed before, HR has a number or the letter H inside a circle. It also can have both a number and letter. While GM hammers have a number inside of a G. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Lastly I picked up 3 H and R uppers, all 3 uppers have forge flash on the back. The first one has a front sight, charging handle and forward assist. H and R forward assist are like Colt and don't have numbers. The second one has a charging handle but aside from that is basically a stripped upper. The charging handles on the first 2 don't have 6 dots that is only seen on GM's. The third one is a rare upper, It's rare in the fact that you almost never find demilled HR uppers this complete if that makes sense. This is the only demilled HR upper this complete I have seen. Now I'm sure there are more out there but you certainly don't see them this complete everyday. This upper has a forward assist with no number and has a complete front sight wheel. However, it does lack a charging handle. If you see a upper with a numbered forward assist that's only seen on GM/Hydramatic's. Some collectors claim HR had numbered forward assists. But that's far from the truth, all the collectors I have talked to, and I have talked with a lot. They have all told me that HR's and Colts lacked number FA's. Even the guys I talked to who have seen untouched HR M16A1's have never seen a number FA. Also to add to that, all the demilled HR uppers I have seen. I have never once seen an HR with a numbered FA. Just to give you guys an idea on how rare finding uppers like the 3rd upper can be. There was a GM upper at auction about the same as my HR upper. It sold for nearly $300, that was also the buyer paying fees and shipping. So it was definitely $300 plus after paying everything. If you guys come across an upper like mine you definitely have something rare or hard to find at the very least. Keep in mind this only applies to HR and GM. Colts are not nearly as rare to find that complete as the other 2. Unless you have an early colt upper don't expect to get anywhere near $300. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Here's another one: GM/Hydramatic M16A1 complete magwell. Definitely rare to find, not to may complete GM magwell lowers come up for sale. It has a serial number of 3,339,469 which would possibly dated this to either late 1969 or 1970. It doesn't have a dod stamp that I could see. It's also got a complete mag release and a bolt catch with an upside down 4. Unfortunately it's missing the front takedown pin and has a crack running down the front. The crack is an easy fix, the takedown pin would be a bit more difficult. However, the front pin could still be fixed and this could be used for a reweld to make a 80%. The magwell is still able to take original mags for display if i choose not to get it rewelded. When it comes to complete M16A1 magwells, GMs are definitely the rarest. I have only personally seen one other GM magwell come up for sale. 

 

 

 

[pharbor1941]

Sad ending to these rifles but great study of original marking and manufacturing.

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Yeah it is sad original receivers are being destroyed. But I'm glad you're finding this post useful hopefully the information I'm providing is helpful. I need to post more photos I got 3 or 4 more demills to post I have just been lazy. 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Its time I finally get around to posting more demilled m16a1 parts. I picked up quite a few more demills. I even acquired a demilled colt m203 that I'll post on here in the future. The first 2 are H and R demilled uppers with rear forge flash. The first one is fairly complete with every part intact except the charging handle. The second upper is basically the same as the first one, it just lacks the charging handle. You can tell both are HR uppers as both forward assist lack a number. Also the charging handle on the first one doesn't have any dots. The color is also consistent with HR uppers.

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Second one is a demilled H and R lower receiver. With a serial numbers of 2,095,184, which would more then likely date is lower to mid 1969. Its got a bolt release, hammer, and hammer pin all still usable parts. The bolt release has an upside down 4. The hammer number is really faded but its a 3 inside of a circle. Remember HR hammers will either have a number or letter H inside a circle. But they could also have both. On the other side of the receiver is a dod stamp. I ended up getting a better phone so hopefully the pictures look better.

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Next one is 2 colt commercial/export front receiver pieces. First ones serial number is 9,279,185 and the second serial number is 9,524,061. You often see demills like these made into keychains. From the information I gathered, colt commercial M16A1s came out in the early 1970s. I cannot confirm this but it sounds like all commercial M16A1 started with a 9 million serial number. So if that's true then like H and R the first commercial colt made would have started with serial number 9,000,000. The second one would have a serial number of 9,000,001 and so on. The Colt commercial M16A1s were sold to law enforcement, civilians, and they were exported. I know some were exported to countries like the Philippines and Israel. If it was exported most countries typically marked the lower receiver. Same thing applies to law enforcement, it would have some type of marking to identify it with there department. 

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Last one, another Colt commercial/export demilled lower receiver. However this one is a complete magwell. Usually I'll show the serial number but I'm going to do a semi auto reweld. So I'm going to whiten the number out in the photo. But the serial number is in the 9,000,000 range. The magwell is in pretty good condition prefect for a reweld. As I stated before complete magwells are rare to find depending on the maker/model. However, Colt commercials are the most common ones to find. Colt commercial complete magwells normally sell in the $150-$250 range. However, you can get lucky like I did and find them for under $100. But they don't last long at that price they will sell fast. That being said even Colt commercial complete magwells are getting harder to find but not impossible. Here is an advertisement from the 70s advertising the Colt commercial machine guns. $236 would be bargain prices today. But that was a lot of money in the 70s plus a $200 tax stamp. If only we could go back in time, I'd gladly pay $436 after the tax stamp. There is another advertisement from the 70s I saw a year ago but I couldn't find it.