Warning on WWII Ammo 30-06!

[Costa]

for those of you who shoot the m-1 garand or any other 30-06 long arm -- do not use ww2 remington arms (RA) WW2 DATED BALL OR AP. they are hot loads and can blow the weapon causing severe injury. i have heard of this going back a way and knowning an ammo shortage now exists some may find or have it now. get rid of it and do not even think of using it. the bottom of the casings look like this-----------

[kphfun]

Must be M.G. ammo? How did you find out about it blowing up rifle's as I have always thought you could shoot MG ammo if your rifle is sound to a certain extent.

[Costa]

Must be M.G. ammo? How did you find out about it blowing up rifle's as I have always thought you could shoot MG ammo if your rifle is sound to a certain extent.

you are right as to mg ammo--- this is prooven going back in the late 90's. a dealer who i will not mention was test firing a 45 garand using this ww2 RA ammo. it broke the op rod and the bolt came back and hit the guy in the face. lucky the injury was minor. i have some of this stuff and began to "dismantle it by forcing the projectle side to side enough to pull the slug and empty the powder out. at least i have the casings and slugs for display. even if the primers are still intact-- the round without the powder is useless. by forcing the slug side to side, you widen the top of the casing which will make it easier to remove the slug.

MAY I ALSO SAY--- DO NOT USE COMMERCIAL AMMO IN A GARAND. THE POWDER BURNS SLOWER THEN MILITARY AND YOU CAN DAMAGE THE OP ROD.

[Airborne-Hunter]

This is a very good informative post. Can really help out for the future! Thanks -ABN

[hawkdriver]

If you find someone with a kinetic puller, you can get the rounds out without wideing the mouth, dump the powder, kill the primer, and put the bullet back in without ruining the mouth.

[kphfun]

Might just have been a bad lot as I would cringe to think how much .30 RA made in that year and if it was consistent I am sure I would have heard/read about it, but good to know this is floating out there. There is a tool to remove the projectile from the case, it works like a hammer and cost about 25.00 . I would just pop one open to check the powder load as that would be the only way it would have that much pressure I would think, does anyone know if this would be true?

[kphfun]

Hawkdriver got's it ..

[Costa]

as i said guys--- dangerous! the powder in the ones i removed was still good. even if you dont tap or kill the primers the round is dead- useless. i have boxes of it that i have to deal with. i am no concerned about deforming the casing or slight grooves in the slug using plyers. i wouldnt even reprimer or load these. its not worth it.

[SI Gordon]

MAY I ALSO SAY--- DO NOT USE COMMERCIAL AMMO IN A GARAND. THE POWDER BURNS SLOWER THEN MILITARY AND YOU CAN DAMAGE THE OP ROD.

Never heard of this one before

I do know what can happen if you fire MG ammo in a 98K ....fish hook firing pin

[Dirt Detective]

I had some 30-06 Greek ammo with the same type primer and a silver type bullet..same problem, stay away. I can also post pics of the ammo if wanted.

[Costa]

I had some 30-06 Greek ammo with the same type primer and a silver type bullet..same problem, stay away. I can also post pics of the ammo if wanted.

post it-- for safety!

[Dirt Detective]

post it-- for safety!

 

Now that I look the primer may be a little diff. but its still stuff to stay away from.

[ksp45]

that could be a/s raufoss ammo from norway,casehead does not look like any us ammo i've ever seen,when you pull one of the bullets out look into the case to see if it has 1 flash hole or 2,if it has 2 its not us

[NebrPatch]

While am not 100% sure factory ammo will damage an M1, I do know that firing bullets heavier than 175 gr. will damage an M1. costa, could you post a detailed photo of the headstamp on the RA cases?

 

Tom

[LtRGFRANK]

I shoot reloads with Military 170 gr match bullets with IMR4064 and have no problems. Have for years in both my Garands. You just have to be sure of your loads and bullets. I also shoot greek ammo from CMP that was loaded for the Garand.

[Sgt. Rob P.]

Hello Gents, I don't post alot, mostly a lurker, but I have to chime in here as there is some scary bad info getting passed.

 

#1 There is no distinction in 30-06 M2 ball ammo that makes it "Machine Gun" ammo, M2 ball spec is M2 ball spec for every weapon.

 

Those RA rounds that Costa shows in his pic show alot of corrosion in the brass, and my guess is the weakened brass gave way.

 

#2 Some M2 ball spec ammo is best left alone. Some, because its corrosively primed and makes for extensive cleaning after shooting such as Korean "KA" or the Tiawanese that was imported recently. Stay the heck away from French ammo. It is dangerous to shoot, and the stuff Dirt Detective shows pics of is FRENCH. Don't shoot it.

 

For more M2 surplus ammo info see here.............. http://www.100megsfree4.com/airground/ammo/ammo.htm

 

#3 Correct on Commercial 30-06. The pressure curve of the powder burn rate is much higher than with M2 spec ammo. The damage is an accumulative affect of metal fatigue. Your M1 could blow on the first shot or well after a few thousand rounds. Know one will know for sure, only that commercial ammo will fatigue the parts and reciever. However two companies make an adjustable gas plug that will vent the excess gas, just google mccann and schuster gas plugs to find them.

 

Semper Fi Gentlemen.

 

Rob P.

[Dirt Detective]

#2 Some M2 ball spec ammo is best left alone. Some, because its corrosively primed and makes for extensive cleaning after shooting such as Korean "KA" or the Tiawanese that was imported recently. Stay the heck away from French ammo. It is dangerous to shoot, and the stuff Dirt Detective shows pics of is FRENCH. Don't shoot it.

 

Semper Fi Gentlemen.

 

Rob P.

 

Okay thanks Rob..I wasnt sure who made it but this crap is going in the trash. I have like 7 boxes. I will have no problem shooting my greek ammo bought from the CMP.

Do you know what shot this French stuff? Im guessing it was bolt action of some sort.

[Sgt. Rob P.]

Okay thanks Rob..I wasnt sure who made it but this crap is going in the trash. I have like 7 boxes. I will have no problem shooting my greek ammo bought from the CMP.

Do you know what shot this French stuff? Im guessing it was bolt action of some sort.

 

You're welcome, Dirt Detective.

The Free French forces were equipped almost entirely by the U.S. to include a large number of M1917 rifles. They were also equipped with some M1 rifles. Many of these saw duty with former french colonies after WWII. Hence the French ammo manufactured for them.

 

Semper Fi, Rob

[Costa]

guys--- one question is now answered as to the stamp on the casing. all you have to see is R A WITH WW2 DATES. dont use it! the rounds i show in the picture are not corroded for i have some boxes of this ammo which is very clean. i only stated what was put up on a forum years back that a well known garand dealer and restorer had an experience of a garand blowing on a range and a injury happened. now, secondly-- commercial ammo also may not cause an injury but, because the powder burns slower can damage the op rod. military ammo be it greek, lake city or any ammo made for the military for the garand is fine except the RA. AND YES ROB IS RIGHT--- 165- 175 GRAIN IS WHAT TO USE IN THE GARAND. i am only stating what is known and trying to prevent some one from getting hurt.

[ksp45]

costa, can you show a better pic of the head of the case? and also the box it came out of,i have shot remington military ammo out of one of my garands and have not had any trouble out of it,no high pressure signs on them, no casehead seperation,nuttin,i still think ya got some furrin made stuff

[kphfun]

Good ammo ..

[Costa]

yes-- match ammo is good, lake city ammo is good, greek ammo is good.

the boxes my RA WW2 rounds are in are not the origional boxes. all i know is that ww2 dated RA ball and ap is no good. bad brass or to hot in powder. hope these other pictures are good enough---------- all what i have is 44 dated. this goes for 42-43 as well.

[LtRGFRANK]

are the bullets black tipped? If they are then their armour piercing which might explain the problem. Robert

[bayonetman]

I am not saying that some of this ammunition is not bad. After 65+ years of unknown storage conditions, almost any ammunition can be suspect. I shot literally hundreds of rounds of this Remington ammunition back in the 1960s when it was readily available and cheap, and never had a problem nor did I hear of any problems from anyone else. But storage conditions, especially high temperatures, can cause problems in any ammunition.

 

As I recall, quite a bit of this ammunition was sold to the British prior to the US entry into WW2. The special primer crimp was, if I remember correctly, intended to prevent primers from backing out when fired in machine guns, especially aircraft guns where the jam could not be readily corrected, Someone might check the book History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition by Hackley, Woodin & Scranton Volume 2 to check my memory.

 

This ammunition came in US Ball, US Armor Piercing and British AP with green tip as shown here.

 

 

 

[Dirteater101]

This problem was encountered a few years ago with some lake city 7.62 nato. The brass was nice and shiny (1st indication) yet still had evidence of being in the mg links (pull marks and discoloration). The head stamp was of ammo from the early 2000's. Did not look like a problem. Than when you fired it it recoiled with such violence that it almost warped the receiver of a G-3 and blew the gas cylinder lock plug from an M1A. After close examination of the cases it was observed that on every caseing the primer had pushed out slightly. This is a tell tale sign of over pressure. Yet these were not reloads. they were lake city factory ammo!

WHAT HAPPENED: It turned out that this ammo came from the coast guard. It was used on their on deck ready belt fed. It was surplussed out due to the corrosion and discoloration. An enterprising surplus vendor (crook) Bought the lot of several thousand rounds, delinked it all and had them all tumbled in an industrial polishing facility. He than repackaged the now shiny rounds in reproduction or new old stock lake city 20 rd. boxes. After a few lawsuits this man is no longer selling ammo.

WORDS OF WARNING: If small arms ammo is tumbled to get rid of corrosion and not disassembled, the powder will break into smaller particles. This will effect the burn rate and the chamber pressure. Thus more energy = trashed rifle. Always look for crisp head stamps or "too shiny" cases.