Korean War Pineapple Grenade

[Hank Kimball]

I'm new, and not a collector.  I inherited a couple of grenades from my wife's father who brought them home from his army service during the Korean . . . police action or war or whatever it is properly called.  They have RDX on them, but they aren't practice or dummy grenades and there is no hole in the bottom.  I removed both fuses to be double sure (even though the pins had been pulled on them in the past) and there is no longer any explosive material in them.  I'm hoping someone here can enlighten me on what I have.  They sat on the desk in his home office for as long as I knew him.  I can post more photos, just let me know what needs to show.

[917601]

I remember something about the RDX mystery. Some say RDX only made practice grenades. I don’t believe that to be true. Maybe some one can chime in.

[917601]

Can you post what the ink markings are on the top spoons?

[Hank Kimball]

2 hours ago, 917601 said:

Can you post what the ink markings are on the top spoons?

I'd figure that he got both grenades at the same place and time, but one spoon looks different, no visible markings and it is green.  The other looks like M204A(could be A1) fuze,   I said they had RDX on them, it is RFX.

[jim_mi]

Looks like RFX rather than RDX...

[Hank Kimball]

10 hours ago, jim_mi said:

Looks like RFX rather than RDX...

Yes it does, I should have checked before I posted that from memory.

[opus5150]

An interesting link to RFX grenades - http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa2/mk2sp/index.html 

Scroll a bit down and you'll find the bit on the RFX casting.

 

[Hank Kimball]

14 hours ago, opus5150 said:

An interesting link to RFX grenades - http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa2/mk2sp/index.html 

Scroll a bit down and you'll find the bit on the RFX casting.

 

That site says "RFX bodies were never used for HE grenades."  That is not true, as what I have is a genuine item, with excellent provenance, and were HE.  My father-in-law brought these home from his service during the Korean war, and they were in his possession until his death.  He served from 1951 until 1953.  I know you aren't suggesting these aren't what I say they are, but that site is giving misinformation in that regard.

[Kaptainssurplus]

4 hours ago, Hank Kimball said:

That site says "RFX bodies were never used for HE grenades."  That is not true, as what I have is a genuine item, with excellent provenance, and were HE.  My father-in-law brought these home from his service during the Korean war, and they were in his possession until his death.  He served from 1951 until 1953.  I know you aren't suggesting these aren't what I say they are, but that site is giving misinformation in that regard.

You are correct, RFX did make real HE MK2s, but they are very rare. Only a few examples are out there that I have seen and they look a little different from yours. The reason for hesitation of authentication is because RFX made mostly M21s amd very few MK2s and for a very short period, maybe a year or 2. Later a RFX M21 was cast copied by someone and thousands were made, which have been sold as novelty/fake/replica grenades since the 1970/80s. As time went on they just got worse and worse in quality. So most people associate RFX with the fakes. And with that many people over the years have used them to make fake MK2s, some just for shows, movies, reenactments etc but there was a lot of people try to make/dress them as real MK2s, basically to scam/defraud people. Over time they have got better in disguising them as people started to figure it out. So most that have some knowledge are not quick to say they are authentic. 

 

Here are a few things I have noticed about yours that doesn't look right: 

 

The yellow band is too thick compared to other real MK2s, the cast lines down the sides, the neck size to the fuze well is larger than other MK2s, the grind marks on the bottom and the RFX markings is a bit different from other know real HE MK2 examples. 

 

If you haven't yet, take the fuzes off and look down into the grenade bodies and look if you can see at the bottom if there was a hole that was filled in. I say this because you could have real RFX M21s, that were later dressed to look like a MK2, by painting it green with the yellow band and filling the hole in the bottom, hence the larger yellow band and grind marks on the bottom. 

 

As for the story from your father in law, I don't mean to be rude or hate or call you a lair or anything, but I have heard all types of BS over the years from veterans. Every show I hear made up stories about pretty much anything. Hence the old saying, buy the item not the story. 

 

So all said, they could be real or they could be M21s dress up to look better, there have been numerous vets that have done this, hell even EOD/trainers/bomb squad etc I have seen do it. 

 

Again no hate here just putting out info for you. 

[Hank Kimball]

I'll take a look inside them to try to confirm there has been no hole filled in, there's not a hint of that from the outside.  I looked inside, but they are blackened inside and it's hard to see.  I understand that I'm just some guy on the internet, and there is plenty of misinformation there (including numerous statements like RFX are all practice grenades).  I realize that there are too many people who are willing to promise that something fake is genuine.  I first saw these on his desk in 1980, and my mother-in-law confirms they were brought home during his service in the army.  They were married and starting a family when he went into the service.  She is now 96 years old and has no agenda one way or the other.  He was not looking to convince anybody about anything, they were just something he had and that I now have.  I don't know what I can do to show one way or the other as to proof, I'm only going on what I know to be fact- they are from the right time and they look authentic to me (not an expert).  I suppose he could have bought a fake during the Korean war . . but he had access to the real thing.  I guess it's a good thing that collectors are skeptical, so I'm trying not to take this personally.  I'll try to take the approach that they are fake until proven real- what is my path to doing that?

[Kaptainssurplus]

They could truly be real practice M21s, as RFX made them, the difference between a real MK2 HE and a M21 is the M21 has a hole in the bottom to let the gas expel from the practice charge. So your FIL could have brought home 2 M21s and then later filled the hole, grinded the excess down flat, then repainted it green with the yellow band. Originally it would have been blue color. So that could be the reason for the wide yellow band and grind marks on the bottom. This has been done a lot over the years, as I said for many different reasons. It would have been easier for him to take practice grenades than a real HE. But there have been others in the past who have taken real MK2 HEs home as well from WW2, so it's still a possibility.

 

IMO, it's either a M21 redressed as a HE MK2, a real RFX HE MK2 (which would be rather rare), or one of the first of the replicas made. I say this because the body looks real nice vs the fake/replica copies of the RFXs but we should all note that the fake ones have a larger fuze well to except the more modern type of fuzess like the M228. So I would lean toward real or M21 dressed up as a Mk2, especially with the M204 fuzes that have the proper date range you are talking about with the story. 

 

If you can get a good look inside at the bottom and see no filler or weld, than congratulations is in order, they are real and you have a great story with the best authentication you can do on them. 

[Hank Kimball]

I took a look down in and can clearly see that it has no filled hole.  The fuzes look like they were detonated, and have black on them.  I don't know if the photo shows the inside clearly enough, I'd want a snake light to do a better job, but you can kind of see.

[Hank Kimball]

Assuming they are what they appear to be, what kind of value are we talking about?  I understand it's hard to put a number on a rare item, so what if we were talking something a bit more common, what range would that sell for?  As I mentioned in my first post, I'm not a collector and just learning about the subject, so I'd appreciate some guidance.

[hink441]

I don’t think they are a M21 RFX practice body. The M21 has rounded lugs and yours have different shaped flatter lugs. I think they are good. 
 

Chris

[Hank Kimball]

Thanks for taking a look, Chris.  I'm thinking the same thing.