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1st Special Forces Beret


doyler
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Bonsoir,

I'm coming perhaps after the war but I don't feel this beret:

- I found no F.E Sweeney in White Star roster

- I found no F.E Sweeney in 1st SGAbn TDY' roster

- the flash stiffner sounds for me very different from the Fleur de Lys, G.I and locally made berets ( burlap material for the two firsts), however I've seen similar stiffner for 80's berets,

- the lining method is very different from the country tailors "know how" for such modifications: usually the new lining covers all the inside beret (in the other hand, I've not seen every seen :) )

So as for myself too much red lights :( , that's my assessment!

However I present you a copy of the Vietnam Insignia Collectors Newsletter, (VICN) about this beret:

25rin3c.jpg

That's my 2 cents

Cheers

Valery

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Thanks to Val for posting the old issue of the VICN showing this beret.

I remember that after showing me the beret in the USA, Andy sold it to someone else back home in UK.

In the early 90s I was a baby collector as far as VN collecting concerned and I have thought for years that this beret was legit. Now, I have also serious doubts.

I stand corrected ! Cheers to you mates !

 

A.

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Andrei .

I also know AB for many many years and met him again at the SOS after not seeing him for 10ish years .

I have always like him , but as you know some things slide past even one of the boys now and ag ain .

o

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I will have to agree with the rest , this one doesn't get a click from me on e-bay , not trying to sound as an expert for green berets but i do have four green berets and finally a " Bancroft " beret on the way and this one just doesn't give the feel !!!

This is a 1'st SF green beret i bought just recently ( sellers pics ) !

 

0b65_3.jpg

0c5e_3.jpg

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101combatvet

Interesting that you found that..... there are many published repros out there. I also agree that the liner is a real red flag.

 

Bonsoir,

I'm coming perhaps after the war but I don't feel this beret:

- I found no F.E Sweeney in White Star roster

- I found no F.E Sweeney in 1st SGAbn TDY' roster

- the flash stiffner sounds for me very different from the Fleur de Lys, G.I and locally made berets ( burlap material for the two firsts), however I've seen similar stiffner for 80's berets,

- the lining method is very different from the country tailors "know how" for such modifications: usually the new lining covers all the inside beret (in the other hand, I've not seen every seen :) )

So as for myself too much red lights :( , that's my assessment!

However I present you a copy of the Vietnam Insignia Collectors Newsletter, (VICN) about this beret:

25rin3c.jpg

That's my 2 cents

Cheers

Valery

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Looks like the lettering was done with a Sharpie yesterday.

Apropos of that:

-----------------

"Just a couple of comments. That name, Sweeney could have been put in later by someone else. People in C & C didn't post their names and units in their berets. Plus, that writing looks fresh, a beret is 100% wool and makes you sweat. That writing would have shown some deterioration it if had been worn after being written in. I can understand the rings on the top of the beret. The lining was only attached to the beret around the leather band and many people took them out. If a new liner is put in, many times the stitching could only be put through the beret, therefore the ring. Most people had the inserts attached to the original liner to prevent that.

 

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner."

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Name and unit could have been written post war by the owner when presenting his beret to a friend or by the friend/collector as a record or souvenir. I am not saying that this beret is legit.

 

I have a L2B flight jacket which belonged to a First Cav MG and the MG wrote his two tours year dates in Vietnam and autograph for a friend on the orange liner.

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101combatvet

Maybe.... but not the S-9506..... no way can I buy that. thumbdown.gif

 

Name and unit could have been written post war by the owner when presenting his beret to a friend or by the friend/collector as a record or souvenir. I am not saying that this beret is legit.

 

I have a L2B flight jacket which belonged to a First Cav MG and the MG wrote his two tours year dates in Vietnam and autograph for a friend on the orange liner.

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Found this from larrystonebooks.com

picture shows the real patch on the left and an 80's repro on the right

kien.jpg

 

post-5424-1239491059.jpg

 

Looks like fake to me

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bravo_2_zero
Found this from larrystonebooks.com

picture shows the real patch on the left and an 80's repro on the right

kien.jpg

 

post-5424-1239491059.jpg

 

Looks like fake to me

 

 

to my untrained eye, the one on the right looks an EXACT - Identical - MATCH !!!

 

Boy i hate fraudsters thumbdown.gif

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101combatvet

Yup.... I was at a military show years ago and I saw a table full of the VN printed patches... apparently they have been printing them out for some time now.

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I agree it all looks hokey. The wear and color of the patch on the inside of the beret looks contrived, more like it was bleached and then stained.

 

An original patch would have held its color better.

 

As you will note it the VICN its authenticity was questioned even back in the mid 1990's.

 

Anybody looking for Andrew Butler can find him on eBay under old_club_badges.

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to my untrained eye, the one on the right looks an EXACT - Identical - MATCH !!!

 

Boy i hate fraudsters thumbdown.gif

:blink: Somebody surely went to a LOT of trouble on this one...

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:blink: Somebody surely went to a LOT of trouble on this one...

.... and I kept thinking for at leat 15 years that I missed a chance to own a good piece in my Vietnam headgear collection !

think.gif

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.... and I kept thinking for at leat 15 years that I missed a chance to own a good piece in my Vietnam headgear collection !

think.gif

...a custom liner is cool but no reason for such high prices, a clean green beret with a production liner and original flash & DI is more valuable to me !!!

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Francis Marion

I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it. I is common practice to cut the liner out of a new beret before shaping and wearing it. The practice has become so common that the latest production of berets do not have liners.

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"I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it. I is common practice to cut the liner out of a new beret before shaping and wearing it. The practice has become so common that the latest production of berets do not have liners."

 

I disagree with this comment, plenty of legit green berets from any group have had the original liner still intact.

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I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it

 

I would also have to respectfully disagree with that comment.

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101combatvet

I never cut my liner out..... you're referring to the more modern Army now.

 

I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it. I is common practice to cut the liner out of a new beret before shaping and wearing it. The practice has become so common that the latest production of berets do not have liners.
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:blink: Somebody surely went to a LOT of trouble on this one...

 

This does not even come close to the level of sophistication used to duplicate berets and headgear. Bob may chime in on this, but for years there was a repro artist in California who could produce these items down to the exact stitch.

 

Depending on the story sold with these items, they easily brought in $125 to $350 each.

 

Any time I see a patch sewn onto a liner, it raises a red flag with me. It doesn't mean it is a fake, but it should be looked at very carefully. Many of the originals that I've seen had the unit insiginia directly embroidered into the liner as opposed to an added patch. But I imagine it was done both ways.

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