VALERY Posted April 7, 2009 Share #26 Posted April 7, 2009 Bonsoir, I'm coming perhaps after the war but I don't feel this beret: - I found no F.E Sweeney in White Star roster - I found no F.E Sweeney in 1st SGAbn TDY' roster - the flash stiffner sounds for me very different from the Fleur de Lys, G.I and locally made berets ( burlap material for the two firsts), however I've seen similar stiffner for 80's berets, - the lining method is very different from the country tailors "know how" for such modifications: usually the new lining covers all the inside beret (in the other hand, I've not seen every seen ) So as for myself too much red lights , that's my assessment! However I present you a copy of the Vietnam Insignia Collectors Newsletter, (VICN) about this beret: That's my 2 cents Cheers Valery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted April 7, 2009 Share #27 Posted April 7, 2009 Thanks to Val for posting the old issue of the VICN showing this beret. I remember that after showing me the beret in the USA, Andy sold it to someone else back home in UK. In the early 90s I was a baby collector as far as VN collecting concerned and I have thought for years that this beret was legit. Now, I have also serious doubts. I stand corrected ! Cheers to you mates ! A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted April 7, 2009 Share #28 Posted April 7, 2009 Andrei . I also know AB for many many years and met him again at the SOS after not seeing him for 10ish years . I have always like him , but as you know some things slide past even one of the boys now and ag ain . o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted April 7, 2009 Share #29 Posted April 7, 2009 Well, I could now say that I have saved some hard earned cash some 17 years ago ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tucker Posted April 7, 2009 Share #30 Posted April 7, 2009 I have checked my U.S. Army Registers and TDY rosters for 5th Group and can not find any Frank E. Sweeny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcher Posted April 9, 2009 Share #31 Posted April 9, 2009 I will have to agree with the rest , this one doesn't get a click from me on e-bay , not trying to sound as an expert for green berets but i do have four green berets and finally a " Bancroft " beret on the way and this one just doesn't give the feel !!! This is a 1'st SF green beret i bought just recently ( sellers pics ) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted April 9, 2009 Share #32 Posted April 9, 2009 Interesting that you found that..... there are many published repros out there. I also agree that the liner is a real red flag. Bonsoir,I'm coming perhaps after the war but I don't feel this beret: - I found no F.E Sweeney in White Star roster - I found no F.E Sweeney in 1st SGAbn TDY' roster - the flash stiffner sounds for me very different from the Fleur de Lys, G.I and locally made berets ( burlap material for the two firsts), however I've seen similar stiffner for 80's berets, - the lining method is very different from the country tailors "know how" for such modifications: usually the new lining covers all the inside beret (in the other hand, I've not seen every seen ) So as for myself too much red lights , that's my assessment! However I present you a copy of the Vietnam Insignia Collectors Newsletter, (VICN) about this beret: That's my 2 cents Cheers Valery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted April 9, 2009 Share #33 Posted April 9, 2009 I wonder what, if anything, appears on the liner UNDER that patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted April 10, 2009 Share #34 Posted April 10, 2009 Looks like the lettering was done with a Sharpie yesterday. Apropos of that: ----------------- "Just a couple of comments. That name, Sweeney could have been put in later by someone else. People in C & C didn't post their names and units in their berets. Plus, that writing looks fresh, a beret is 100% wool and makes you sweat. That writing would have shown some deterioration it if had been worn after being written in. I can understand the rings on the top of the beret. The lining was only attached to the beret around the leather band and many people took them out. If a new liner is put in, many times the stitching could only be put through the beret, therefore the ring. Most people had the inserts attached to the original liner to prevent that. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted April 10, 2009 Share #35 Posted April 10, 2009 Name and unit could have been written post war by the owner when presenting his beret to a friend or by the friend/collector as a record or souvenir. I am not saying that this beret is legit. I have a L2B flight jacket which belonged to a First Cav MG and the MG wrote his two tours year dates in Vietnam and autograph for a friend on the orange liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted April 10, 2009 Share #36 Posted April 10, 2009 Maybe.... but not the S-9506..... no way can I buy that. Name and unit could have been written post war by the owner when presenting his beret to a friend or by the friend/collector as a record or souvenir. I am not saying that this beret is legit. I have a L2B flight jacket which belonged to a First Cav MG and the MG wrote his two tours year dates in Vietnam and autograph for a friend on the orange liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhk Posted April 11, 2009 Share #37 Posted April 11, 2009 Found this from larrystonebooks.com picture shows the real patch on the left and an 80's repro on the right Looks like fake to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravo_2_zero Posted April 11, 2009 Share #38 Posted April 11, 2009 Found this from larrystonebooks.compicture shows the real patch on the left and an 80's repro on the right Looks like fake to me to my untrained eye, the one on the right looks an EXACT - Identical - MATCH !!! Boy i hate fraudsters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted April 11, 2009 Share #39 Posted April 11, 2009 Yup.... I was at a military show years ago and I saw a table full of the VN printed patches... apparently they have been printing them out for some time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted April 12, 2009 Share #40 Posted April 12, 2009 I agree it all looks hokey. The wear and color of the patch on the inside of the beret looks contrived, more like it was bleached and then stained. An original patch would have held its color better. As you will note it the VICN its authenticity was questioned even back in the mid 1990's. Anybody looking for Andrew Butler can find him on eBay under old_club_badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted April 12, 2009 Share #41 Posted April 12, 2009 to my untrained eye, the one on the right looks an EXACT - Identical - MATCH !!! Boy i hate fraudsters Somebody surely went to a LOT of trouble on this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted April 12, 2009 Share #42 Posted April 12, 2009 Somebody surely went to a LOT of trouble on this one... .... and I kept thinking for at leat 15 years that I missed a chance to own a good piece in my Vietnam headgear collection ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcher Posted April 12, 2009 Share #43 Posted April 12, 2009 .... and I kept thinking for at leat 15 years that I missed a chance to own a good piece in my Vietnam headgear collection ! ...a custom liner is cool but no reason for such high prices, a clean green beret with a production liner and original flash & DI is more valuable to me !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Marion Posted April 12, 2009 Share #44 Posted April 12, 2009 I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it. I is common practice to cut the liner out of a new beret before shaping and wearing it. The practice has become so common that the latest production of berets do not have liners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted April 12, 2009 Share #45 Posted April 12, 2009 "I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it. I is common practice to cut the liner out of a new beret before shaping and wearing it. The practice has become so common that the latest production of berets do not have liners." I disagree with this comment, plenty of legit green berets from any group have had the original liner still intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick. Posted April 12, 2009 Share #46 Posted April 12, 2009 I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it I would also have to respectfully disagree with that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted April 12, 2009 Share #47 Posted April 12, 2009 I never cut my liner out..... you're referring to the more modern Army now. I would actually be suspect of a beret WITH a production liner in it. I is common practice to cut the liner out of a new beret before shaping and wearing it. The practice has become so common that the latest production of berets do not have liners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted April 12, 2009 Share #48 Posted April 12, 2009 Somebody surely went to a LOT of trouble on this one... This does not even come close to the level of sophistication used to duplicate berets and headgear. Bob may chime in on this, but for years there was a repro artist in California who could produce these items down to the exact stitch. Depending on the story sold with these items, they easily brought in $125 to $350 each. Any time I see a patch sewn onto a liner, it raises a red flag with me. It doesn't mean it is a fake, but it should be looked at very carefully. Many of the originals that I've seen had the unit insiginia directly embroidered into the liner as opposed to an added patch. But I imagine it was done both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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