WWII Double named m1917a1 (Kelly) helmet…

[Kevin1979]

A long time ago I bought a helmet at a yard sale for $20 cdn. and didn’t really know anything about US transitional Kelly helmets at the time and just thought it was just a regular wwii Canadian helmet just with a strange liner. I thought maybe post war reissued or something. When I did some research it appeared to be an early wwii US transitional Kelly helmet before the m1 helmet was adopted. I pulled it out of storage recently and clued in that it was a named helmet. It had a name stamped in saying possibly T c McKinney, jr. I really don’t have much of a way of tracking that name down. Then to my surprise there was another name written on the liner in pen. It’s written twice on both sides of the inner rim of the liner. This one says Pvt. Max Kanady U.S.M.C. I’m wondering if it was originally issued to the McKinney and then later to Kanady. I hear Kelly helmets aren’t super popular to collectors compared to the m1 helmets but I still find it very interesting and it’s one of my favorite helmets I own. My question is would it be very common to have any US WWII helmet named twice to separate soldiers and with that maybe being the case would it increase the value of it? That’s if those helmets have much value at all in the first place? Thanks for any help with this and i appreciate any info on the helmet, the names or the value. The value isn’t important to me but would be cool to know if it was special in any way. The pictures don’t do the helmet justice at all. If anyone needs any additional photos or info let me know. Thank you. 😁👍

[Rhscott]

Well, you have a 1942 Canadian made Mk2 steel helmet that for some reason has a US M1917A1 liner inside.  Never seen or know of any real military reason for the two to have met up. I just can’t see it being a legit WW2 thing.

[atb]

So, a fake M1917A1 helmet for reenacting? Or, a museum prop.

[Kevin1979]

6 minutes ago, Rhscott said:

Well, you have a 1942 Canadian made Mk2 steel helmet that for some reason has a US M1917A1 liner inside.  Never seen or know of any real military reason for the two to have met up. I just can’t see it being a legit WW2 thing.

 

2 minutes ago, atb said:

So, a fake M1917A1 helmet for reenacting? Or, a museum prop.

Seems they were frequently made out of Canadian shells. Here a example…

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-wwii-u-s-navy-m1917a1-kelly-helmet-made-from-canadian-brodie-shell-dated-1942?variant=39446620602437

[Kevin1979]

12 minutes ago, Rhscott said:

Well, you have a 1942 Canadian made Mk2 steel helmet that for some reason has a US M1917A1 liner inside.  Never seen or know of any real military reason for the two to have met up. I just can’t see it being a legit WW2 thing.

May have been for Canadian defence…

 

But still doesn’t really explain the U.S.M.C in the liner. 🤷‍♂️

[atb]

18 minutes ago, Kevin1979 said:

 

Seems they were frequently made out of Canadian shells. Here a example…

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-wwii-u-s-navy-m1917a1-kelly-helmet-made-from-canadian-brodie-shell-dated-1942?variant=39446620602437

If you buy the IMA story. First I have seen this unusual explanation including in the major US helmet helmet reference works.

[Kevin1979]

1 minute ago, atb said:

If you buy the IMA story. First I have seen this unusual explanation including in the manor US helmet helmet reference works.

Yes. Plus I didn’t know how to edit and the word “frequently” probably wasn’t the best word for my reply to you without more info. 👍

[Kevin1979]

A older post on a forum 2013 but has a mention of a similar helmet.

https://www.cdnmilitarycollectors.com/t2410-us-ww1-reissue-helmet-with-canadian-connection

[JohnK83882]

The liner could be a US item made for the canadian helmet. The shell could have been made in the US as well.

[Kevin1979]

2 minutes ago, JohnK83882 said:

The liner could be a US item made for the canadian helmet. The shell could have been made in the US as well.

I think the cl/c (canadain motor lamp comany) stamp means Canadian made shell. 

[JohnK83882]

I didn't see the maker mark. Also, we got rid of the M17 helmet in '42 so maybe the liners were repurposed.

[Rhscott]

Well could be a Canadian thing.  The militaries/ paramilitaries and police of the world used new and existing gear and modified it to meet their own needs during and after WW2.  What might have occurred is anyone’s  guess but it was not done in US service.

As to the two issued names that is not uncommon either; Soldiers and Marines came and went prior to our entry in WW2 with enlistments, injuries requiring discharge, AWOL, washed out of recruit training etc and most of all units issued out helmets and webbing as “unit” property and it was to be turned in upon that persons departure to other units or out of service. 

[Kevin1979]

10 minutes ago, Rhscott said:

Well could be a Canadian thing.  The militaries/ paramilitaries and police of the world used new and existing gear and modified it to meet their own needs during and after WW2.  What might have occurred is anyone’s  guess but it was not done in US service.

As to the two issued names that is not uncommon either; Soldiers and Marines came and went prior to our entry in WW2 with enlistments, injuries requiring discharge, AWOL, washed out of recruit training etc and most of all units issued out helmets and webbing as “unit” property and it was to be turned in upon that persons departure to other units or out of service. 

Well that’s some good info. Worst case it’s an interesting helmet for the collection with a bit of mystery. 😁

[atb]

1 hour ago, JohnK83882 said:

I didn't see the maker mark. Also, we got rid of the M17 helmet in '42 so maybe the liners were repurposed.

The last image shows the Canadian maker mark and date.

[Andrew]

These Canadian Mk II shells fitted with US liners appear fairly often here in Canada, and have generated all sorts of speculation.

 

The IMA video, which states as a matter of fact that the combinations are wartime civil defence helmets, is not especially convincing, and will probably only further confuse the issue.

 

Thanks to Roger Lucy's book 'Tin Lids: Canadian Combat Helmets,' which is based on solid archival evidence (not speculation or imagination), we know that the Canadian Air Raid Protection Service acquired 15,600 military pattern Mk II helmets from National Defence stocks in 1941. There is no evidence mentioned in the book that these were equipped with anything other than the standard Canadian-manufactured liners. In 1942, the Department of Pensions and Health, which was responsible for civil defence procurement, obtained a further 30,000 military pattern helmet shells that had been manufactured by General Steelwares (GSW), but rejected for some quality control reason. One assumes that standard Canadian liners were also procured to complete those helmet assemblies. (In any case, the OP's helmet is not a GSW, but a CL/C, ie, Canadian Motorlamp Company shell). Later in 1942, the Department of Pensions and Health ordered 155,000 economy-type Mk II shells for Air Raid Protection use, etc, from GSW. These are easily recognized because the chin-strap lugs are spot welded to the shell rather than rivetted, and they are marked D.P. & H. (Department of Pensions and Health). Also, the steel used in these D.P. & H. shells is magnetic. Military pattern shells were non-magnetic. An equal number of standard liners were ordered from the usual supplier in Canada, and the D.P. & H. helmets always show up with Canadian liners.

 

So how do we explain why so many military pattern Mk II shells turn up in Canada with Kelly liners (liners in new and used condition)?

 

I believe that these combinations are historically authentic, but more than likely, they were mated up at some point after 1945. Even before the war was over the Canadian government was already taking measures to dispose of war surplus material, and the flood gates opened as the war ended. Vast quantities of equipment were released for sale to the public, or passed over to Allied countries, such as the Netherlands. This process has recently been well documented in Alex Souchen's book 'War Junk: Munitions Disposal and Postwar Reconstruction in Canada.' I would theorize that as the Cold War heated up, the Canadian government suddenly found itself short of crucial equipment and supplies, and may have procured a quantity of Kelly liners from the US government as a stop-gap measure to equip surplus wartime shells for (postwar) civil defence use. 

I have two of these helmets in my collection. One, shown below, features a CL/C-manufactured shell. I can't read the markings on the second shell (not shown here), but it does have a four-digit laundry number written on the liner.

 

These days they seem to trade in the $100 range in my neck of the woods.
 

[Andrew]

I just noticed as well, for what it's worth, that my CL/C shell comes from the same lot (77) as the OP's shell. 

[Kevin1979]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

These Canadian Mk II shells fitted with US liners appear fairly often here in Canada, and have generated all sorts of speculation.

 

The IMA video, which states as a matter of fact that the combinations are wartime civil defence helmets, is not especially convincing, and will probably only further confuse the issue.

 

Thanks to Roger Lucy's book 'Tin Lids: Canadian Combat Helmets,' which is based on solid archival evidence (not speculation or imagination), we know that the Canadian Air Raid Protection Service acquired 15,600 military pattern Mk II helmets from National Defence stocks in 1941. There is no evidence mentioned in the book that these were equipped with anything other than the standard Canadian-manufactured liners. In 1942, the Department of Pensions and Health, which was responsible for civil defence procurement, obtained a further 30,000 military pattern helmet shells that had been manufactured by General Steelwares (GSW), but rejected for some quality control reason. One assumes that standard Canadian liners were also procured to complete those helmet assemblies. (In any case, the OP's helmet is not a GSW, but a CL/C, ie, Canadian Motorlamp Company shell). Later in 1942, the Department of Pensions and Health ordered 155,000 economy-type Mk II shells for Air Raid Protection use, etc, from GSW. These are easily recognized because the chin-strap lugs are spot welded to the shell rather than rivetted, and they are marked D.P. & H. (Department of Pensions and Health). Also, the steel used in these D.P. & H. shells is magnetic. Military pattern shells were non-magnetic. An equal number of standard liners were ordered from the usual supplier in Canada, and the D.P. & H. helmets always show up with Canadian liners.

 

So how do we explain why so many military pattern Mk II shells turn up in Canada with Kelly liners (liners in new and used condition)?

 

I believe that these combinations are historically authentic, but more than likely, they were mated up at some point after 1945. Even before the war was over the Canadian government was already taking measures to dispose of war surplus material, and the flood gates opened as the war ended. Vast quantities of equipment were released for sale to the public, or passed over to Allied countries, such as the Netherlands. This process has recently been well documented in Alex Souchen's book 'War Junk: Munitions Disposal and Postwar Reconstruction in Canada.' I would theorize that as the Cold War heated up, the Canadian government suddenly found itself short of crucial equipment and supplies, and may have procured a quantity of Kelly liners from the US government as a stop-gap measure to equip surplus wartime shells for (postwar) civil defence use. 

I have two of these helmets in my collection. One, shown below, features a CL/C-manufactured shell. I can't read the markings on the second shell (not shown here), but it does have a four-digit laundry number written on the liner.

 

These days they seem to trade in the $100 range in my neck of the woods.
 

Awesome write up. Thanks. Now the only other question is the names and markings. Like u.s.m.c etc.

Is there a database that someone can look up the names? Also don’t think because of the multiple names its possible a used early Kelly liner that was repurposed later on? 

[Andrew]

The liners were already used before they reached Canadian hands.

[Kevin1979]

5 minutes ago, Andrew said:

The liners were already used before they reached Canadian hands.

Great. Good to know. Think it’s ever worth the effort of tracking down info on the soldiers names on it? Sorry for all the questions.

[Andrew]

That is up to you, but the names are related only to the liner, not the helmet shell...