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Good? CBI Aircrew wing


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Hi all for you viewing pleasure I am posting what I think is likely a hand made aircrew wing. Apprears to be a peice of silver which was hand detailed with a seperatley applied center device. I think the center device is from another insignia as you will see in the attached photos. Additionally if you look at the fittings they are a cobination of what you might find in the CBI and that of a standard wing.

 

It is interesting to me that the bottom of the wing is much thicker that the top which is most pronounced in the shoulders when looking from the top down.

 

As always I am interested in your thoughts.

 

John

 

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Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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Interesting wing John. I've seen several like this over the years. Here's one on my site that is similar in construction and also includes an applied piece that appears to have been cut out from another wing's center section. I recently purchased a 2" air crew wing almost exactly like the one on my site from eBay that has the same type of construction. I don't have any information about where they were made but these look like period made pieces to me.

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That is a nice one Bob and the fittings are the same type. I need to look for some more info on these... maybe folks will post more examples.

 

John

Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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Bob your right... maybe someone is making them in their basement dunno.gif I will keep it in my unknown box...

Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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Ok - I have had some time to actually look at it and under close inspection and discussion with a fellow collectors along with the fact I have now seen three almost identical wing badges I now consider this to be a fake badge.

 

In my communications with the seller he states he got it directly from a VET's estate... think.gif but was willing to provide an agreed upon refund since I wanted to keep this fake as an example.

 

Here are some of the reasons I think this wing is suspect:

1) Overall patina is too even front and back i.e. chemical aging

2) Three almost identical exmaples two of which came up for sale within a week

 

I am adding some higher res photos for folks to have as a reference. If you are reading this and have a wing like it please post it here or if you rather not please PM me about it.

 

Thanks

 

hirescbi1a.jpg

 

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Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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Frankly John, I am not sure I agree with you that these are fake wings. They look EXACTLY like what I would expect from CBI-made (more than likely India) wings. The catch, the pin the metal work. I have seen a number of these in collections and they are, as far as I can tell without handling them in person, I believe them to be 100% vintage.

 

You always take a chance with "theater-made" insignia and you will NEVER convince all the nay-sayers and tire kickers but I fear your rational for rejecting these wings are flawed. 1) the patina doesnt look to be fake or chemical, and 2) sometimes similar wings come out at the same time--I have seen it happen more than once, and have missed some good opportunities. It is also possible that since you are specifically LOOKING for these type of wings, you have a false impression that they are "flooding" the market. Sometimes being to cautious is as dangerous to a collector as not being critical enough.

 

Also 3) the catch is exactly what I have seen on other wings of this kind, as with the SILVER mark. If I were you, I would do a bit more research before deciding it is a fake.

 

To be honest, I think you are making a big mistake moving this wing to the "fake" column. If you decide you can't live with it, send it my way.

 

Patrick

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I hear you Patrick but 3 exact wings..? What are the odds of two wings being on Ebay at almost the same time from two sellers that are located in the same general geographic area? Just following my gut...

 

Additionally on the right and left lower areas of the center device you will see a dark area. The dark area has and ood blue color. I spoke to Steve about this and he mentioned that there is a chemical sold at the hobby lobby that creates a aged llok or patina that leaves this type of color. It is also odd that that some of the same dark color is on the olive brance close to the dark area on the wing yet the rest of the center device is clean.

 

I should also add that the lines that define the feathers to the right and left of the center device are filled with this dark color as if it was following the line toward the bottom of the wing but not all the way which to me is odd.

 

John

Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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Just an observation, and this could be one of those collector over analysis things, that the pin on this is bent differently at the hinge than most of the CBI or Aussie/Brit stuff I've seen. Usually the pin comes out of the top of the hinge and then bends over to the catch. On this wing the pin comes out of the bottom of the hinge and then over to the catch. Look at this set of Aussie made wings on my site to see what I mean. There are several others on my site as well that could be used for comparison. I'm not saying this makes them fakes I'm just noting a difference. I agree with Patrick that I wouldn't rule them out too quickly but just thought I would throw this out there as well. The 2" air crew wings that I got off of ebay are marked the same although the front pattern is different and the applied eagle/shield is well worn as you would expect it to be after wear. If you want to see pictures let me know.

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I agree.. Looks pretty good to me too.. back reminds me of typical CBI British type pin.. I had a CAF wing that had it like this and it was thicker at the bottom than the top. Marking looks good too.. Patina is what it is.. Sure it can be faked. BUT... I have a set of repops that tarnish if you look at them wrong and they look good when they tarnish(other than the back where i engraved FAKE into them).. I've found wings will also react to dry cleaning bags, paper, fingerprints, and even the wool they are on. Then there's the ones that get cleaned up to sell..LOL.. All in all, You might have a good set there.. I'm like Patrick.. If ya don't want em.. :rolleyes:

 

Fins..

That wasn't friendly fire.. If I was being 'friendly', I wouldn't have fired at them!!!

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Over the years I have owned a number of CBI - theatre-made wings. They have ranged from the very crude to quite exotic jeweler-made pieces. The folks that made them were 'artisans' of varying quality who were just trying to make a Rupee! I have no problem with the Air Crew wing as shown. It looks fine to me, considering the source. If a faker was to create such a badge today, you might expect to see a different rating than AC which has always been on the botton of the wing-collector's totem pole. My 2-cents.

Bobgee

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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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First, at the risk of breaking some rules, I wanted to post some pictures of a brother to your wing that is currently for sale on Ron Burkey's web site. If this is inappropriate to post these photos then please take them down.

 

However, you can see that the catch, the workmanship, the pattern and the markings are all just about identical to your wing. Ron is as knowledgeable as just about anyone in this field and I would give his opinion on something like this pretty strong consideration.

 

What sells me is the catch. This looks just like the catch I have seen on many other CBI-made wings.

 

Patrick

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I also agree with the thought of why would you fake air crew wings? Hell, just leave them as observer wings and don't go through the trouble of cutting out the eagle. You'd get more for observer than air crew any day. I still think these have a very good shot at being authentic.

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Hi all for you viewing pleasure I am posting what I think is likely a hand made aircrew wing. Apprears to be a peice of silver which was hand detailed with a seperatley applied center device. I think the center device is from another insignia as you will see in the attached photos. Additionally if you look at the fittings they are a cobination of what you might find in the CBI and that of a standard wing.

 

It is interesting to me that the bottom of the wing is much thicker that the top which is most pronounced in the shoulders when looking from the top down.

 

As always I am interested in your thoughts.

 

John

 

cbiac1.jpg

 

cbiac2.jpg

 

I dunno, John; they look kind of neat to me. If you want to get rid of em', PM me. :blush:

Semper fi; Bill











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I'd like to add my 2-cent opinion that this is a good wing. Agree completely with those who expressed wonder why anyone would bother faking an Aircrew wing for a negligible return on the effort. It's also true that in far away parts of the world where things don't come so easily as here, "anything for a Rupee" is an excellent observation.

 

However, this thread reminds me why I never became a collector of much of anything at the high price levels; thankfully tamed the got to have it beast long ago. That way if I'm burned, I'm not burned too badly and if I'm fortunate, then I'm fortunate. Agree with (Patrick's, I think) sentiment expressed some time ago that patience in collecting is a plus. ...interesting wing.

 

 

Paul S.

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All,

 

I agree why would anyone fake a common wing but then again you can not rule this out 100%. The problem is not the fact it is cast nor with the fittings... What raises the RED Flag for me is all the examples (now 4) that are almost identical. All the wing are made the same way does this not raise any alarms?

 

I may be over thinking this here but then again it is part of the fun at least for me. I will however alter the title to reflect the views expressed here.

 

John

Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

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John,

 

I agree it's a good idea to be cautious when several odd things show up in close sequence on eBay. However, I've seen at least 2 instances where a couple of Beverlycraft wings showed up from the same estate seller, then from another seller in a different location, a couple of Aussie wings. In each instance the wings were perfectly good, a couple of them still in their original boxes, and had very apparently been stuck away in a box or trunk for decades as they had terrific and authentic age toning on them.

 

Now if they'd kept coming then there's something fishy to be sure, but they didn't. It was 2 and out and that was that. Those 4 wings were all Aircrew also, so here again was an instance of a low end wing from high end makers, not being particularly sought after. For what it's worth.

 

Here's a question...I've noticed that there seems to be a much wider variety of Aircrew wings available when compared to Aerial Gunner wings, yet there were more stations aboard a bomber occupied by gunners. Any ideas why the excess of Aircrew vs. Gunners wings?

 

A former gunner aboard one of my father's planes told me that he went overseas with Aircrew wings in mid-1944, not even knowing there were Aerial Gunner wings available. That's quite late in the war to not know of the AG wings isn't it? Yet, if I recall correctly, both the Aircrew and Aerial Gunner designs were approved by the AAF about the same time, weren't they?

 

Paul S

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Paul,

 

I think the Air Crew wing was auth in late 42 and likely started to show up shortly after that once production got under way. In an email froma friend about this topic he mentioned that in the CBI the high number of cargo planes allowed many to qualify for the Air Crew badge so maybe this had some impact.

 

As for the gunner on your Dad's plane that is a bit odd and there can be many explainations as to why... I recall reading about an AG in the ETO who wore the AC wing badge because he liked it better...

 

Additionally I want to thanks everyone for such a spirited series of replies on one of my new additions. You all are really tipping the scales!

 

Thanks thumbsup.gif

John

Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

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