LT COL Joe Forman grouping CAP

[4STARCHRIS]

This is a great leather f-16 jacket.

This is his minis

THe only problem is I can't find a navy cross awarded in his name.

Here is his nametag.

[4STARCHRIS]

any help would be greatly appreciated sorry about wrong name. served many years throughout the Air Force, Coast guard auxiliary, and the civil Air patrol. Joe 'flash' Furman

4starchris

 

[trenchbuff]

This group makes no sense at all and appears to be a total fabrication.  I knew a CAP Colonel that had some pretty wild stories and that's what they turned out to be...stories.

[4STARCHRIS]

Trench buff -Thanks for the reply. I agreed at first until i checked and verified all his CAP medals with documentation. What I can't seem to find is any navy cross material. BUT all CAP medals are documented. 4starchris

 

[4STARCHRIS]

[4STARCHRIS]

A Little close up of his mini  and CAP minis.A

[Spartan19]

The Navy Cross to a Air Force/Cap Col makes no send at all. I know the Navy award soke army members the Navy Cross but the Air Force? The Air Force has also been decent about stuff like this. If anything he would have been awarded the Army Distinguished Service Cross or Air Force Cross. 

[decwriter]

Here’s an obit and other pics. Notice the rack he is wearing reflects the AFCM as his highest decoration. 

 

[trenchbuff]

His obituary claims he flew "about 200 combat missions between 1968-70", so you'd think it would be easy to find more info on him...air medals, etc.  The flight jacket looks like a commercial item with the "wolf pack" paint job, but can't really tell from just one photo.  I agree, he was a long serving CAP officer, but what about his active duty service?  And the Navy Cross is a big red flag.

[4STARCHRIS]

Thanks for all the replies. I agree why is his veteran service so hard to find. I also noted the afcm. I also agree with why is he missing most his USAF Vietnam service medals.

[4STARCHRIS]

I find it interesting that I did verify all his CAP medals but I can't verify any of his Veteran service medal. 

[4STARCHRIS]

But I also agree 200 combat missions were of warranted the DFC and maybe a AM. But navy cross  being a USAF, Coast guard aux., and CAP.

[Spartan19]

Could be a case of stolen valor a lot of Vietnam vets unfortunately claimed awards they were not entitled to or came up with some wild story's of being in SF or doing this or that and they never did any of it.

[decwriter]

Nice Pop’s Leather jacket! I bought one 24 years ago in the alley outside Incirlik AB and it’s still in great shape.

[skylog6]

Just some thoughts:

 

Where did the collection come from? His family or a third party? If it came from a third party, I would not jump to conclusions about stolen valor. Anyone can dress a uniform up to increase value for sale.

 

Let's start with the picture of him in CAP uniform with the flag behind him. His highest award as previously mentioned if the AF Commendation. Note that the Vietnam era awards look right (unlike the mini medals), which I note are crooked and look added. The highest CAP award he is wearing in the photo is the CAP Commanders Commendation (roughly the equivalent of an AF Commendation).

 

In the mini medals, there are three higher CAP awards than he is wearing in the photo:

1. The CAP Silver Medal of Valor which is awarded for "distinguished and conspicuous heroic action, at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of normal duty."

2. The CAP Bronze Medal of Valor which is awarded "distinguished and conspicuous heroic action where danger to self is probable and known."

3. What looks like the CAP Exceptional Service Medal (LOM equivalent).

Having both the Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor raises  

 

It is possible that he received the CAP ESM as a CAP retirement award.

In neither of the two photos is he wearing any suspicious awards.

 

I'll make some observations about the CAP uniform and awards.

[skylog6]

Some random thoughts:

 

Where did the collection come from? His family or a third party? If it came from a third party, I would not jump to conclusions about him and stolen valor. None of what he is wearing in the attached photo of him is suspicious. Anyone can dress a uniform up to increase value for sale.

 

There are a number of inconsistencies between what he is wearing as awards in the picture and what is hanging on the mess dress uniform with the Navy Cross. His highest award in the picture as previously mentioned is the AF Commendation medal. Note that the Vietnam era awards look right (unlike the mini medals). Note the military medals on the mess dress are not level and look added later. The military medals he is wearing in the CAP uniform picture are not represented in the mini medals (no AF Good Conduct, no NDSM, no campaign stars on the VSM, no Vietnamese Campaign Medal).

 

The highest CAP award he is wearing in the photo is the CAP Commanders Commendation (roughly the equivalent of an AF Commendation). In the mini medals, there are three higher CAP awards than he is wearing in the photo:

1. The CAP Silver Medal of Valor which is awarded for "distinguished and conspicuous heroic action, at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of normal duty."

2. The CAP Bronze Medal of Valor which is awarded "distinguished and conspicuous heroic action where danger to self is probable and known."

3. What looks like the CAP Exceptional Service Medal (LOM equivalent).

 

Below those three awards, the CAP ribbons in the photo of him and the mini medals match. None of those CAP awards are unusual.

 

Having both the Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor raises questions in my mind. It is possible that he received the CAP ESM as the end of his CAP career.

 

If my family wrote my obituary and talked about my military service, it would have significant errors and say a lot of things that don't make sense. I've seen it in the obits of former bosses and comrades that made me cringe.  It says he was a Naval Cadet and served aboard a destroyer in Korea…there are no Korean Service awards in either the photo or mini medals. Maybe he was a naval cadet during the Korean war and at some point spent a brief sea cadet cruse on a destroyer. (I would think his obit would list any valor awards and the obit photo does not appear to have the NC, DFC, or PH, nor the CAP Medals of Valor.

 

More observations:

He is wearing the AF Good Conduct Medal. That reflects enlisted service. During his period of service were all naval aviators and AF pilots commissioned?

He flew nearly 200 missions in Vietnam…as a pilot or as a crew chief? Obit does not specify. I "flew" a lot of missions during my service in Afghanistan and Iraq...none of it was as a pilot or crew member...my family would not know the difference.

If he was a former military aviator, he would be authorized to wear those wings on the CAP uniform. He is not wearing either Naval or USAF pilot wings, only CAP wings, which are earned by being a civilian private pilot. Note that there are no military aviator wings on the mess dress either (unless you were a CAP member, unlikely you would know to add those wings if you were dressing things up).

 

Is the flight jacket part of the same lot attributed to him? It has an F-16 on it. The F-16 entered service ~1980. He would have been 58 in 1980 and from his obit, most of his career was as a civilian.

[4STARCHRIS]

The flight jacket is with the grouping. It does not have a tag.

[Spartan19]

12 hours ago, skylog6 said:

Some random thoughts:

 

Where did the collection come from? His family or a third party? If it came from a third party, I would not jump to conclusions about him and stolen valor. None of what he is wearing in the attached photo of him is suspicious. Anyone can dress a uniform up to increase value for sale.

 

There are a number of inconsistencies between what he is wearing as awards in the picture and what is hanging on the mess dress uniform with the Navy Cross. His highest award in the picture as previously mentioned is the AF Commendation medal. Note that the Vietnam era awards look right (unlike the mini medals). Note the military medals on the mess dress are not level and look added later. The military medals he is wearing in the CAP uniform picture are not represented in the mini medals (no AF Good Conduct, no NDSM, no campaign stars on the VSM, no Vietnamese Campaign Medal).

 

The highest CAP award he is wearing in the photo is the CAP Commanders Commendation (roughly the equivalent of an AF Commendation). In the mini medals, there are three higher CAP awards than he is wearing in the photo:

1. The CAP Silver Medal of Valor which is awarded for "distinguished and conspicuous heroic action, at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of normal duty."

2. The CAP Bronze Medal of Valor which is awarded "distinguished and conspicuous heroic action where danger to self is probable and known."

3. What looks like the CAP Exceptional Service Medal (LOM equivalent).

 

Below those three awards, the CAP ribbons in the photo of him and the mini medals match. None of those CAP awards are unusual.

 

Having both the Silver and Bronze Medals of Valor raises questions in my mind. It is possible that he received the CAP ESM as the end of his CAP career.

 

If my family wrote my obituary and talked about my military service, it would have significant errors and say a lot of things that don't make sense. I've seen it in the obits of former bosses and comrades that made me cringe.  It says he was a Naval Cadet and served aboard a destroyer in Korea…there are no Korean Service awards in either the photo or mini medals. Maybe he was a naval cadet during the Korean war and at some point spent a brief sea cadet cruse on a destroyer. (I would think his obit would list any valor awards and the obit photo does not appear to have the NC, DFC, or PH, nor the CAP Medals of Valor.

 

More observations:

He is wearing the AF Good Conduct Medal. That reflects enlisted service. During his period of service were all naval aviators and AF pilots commissioned?

He flew nearly 200 missions in Vietnam…as a pilot or as a crew chief? Obit does not specify. I "flew" a lot of missions during my service in Afghanistan and Iraq...none of it was as a pilot or crew member...my family would not know the difference.

If he was a former military aviator, he would be authorized to wear those wings on the CAP uniform. He is not wearing either Naval or USAF pilot wings, only CAP wings, which are earned by being a civilian private pilot. Note that there are no military aviator wings on the mess dress either (unless you were a CAP member, unlikely you would know to add those wings if you were dressing things up).

 

Is the flight jacket part of the same lot attributed to him? It has an F-16 on it. The F-16 entered service ~1980. He would have been 58 in 1980 and from his obit, most of his career was as a civilian.

I said "it could be" not that it was Stolen Valor. If you didn't know the Vietnam War Created the Stolen Valor craze and there were several books written about it in the early 2000s with lead to the stolen Valor act.

 

Yes anyone can add stuff. 

[skylog6]

Spartan19,

 

No offense intended and I was not making an accusation. I'm well aware of the issue of stolen valor. I saw a lot of it throughout my career and it is a problem.

 

Bill