militbuff Posted August 9 Share #1 Posted August 9 Can anyone let me know what I have here? These wings are marked STERLING on the back but don’t have a hallmark. Are they pre-WWII and what company made them? Much appreciated! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathbonemuseum.com Posted August 9 Share #2 Posted August 9 These wings, some of which are found on a White & Co card, are assumed to be from the late 20s to mid 30s based on their design and manufacturing. They also don’t conform to the regulation size of 3”. I don’t believe these were ever issued and were made for retailers to sell as private purchase, which is why they are so out of the typical form of regulation pilot wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militbuff Posted August 9 Author Share #3 Posted August 9 Very Interesting. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 9 Share #4 Posted August 9 This is one of those wings where you have to decide for yourself. Like Tod mentions, it is frequently cited as a "20-30's" vintage wing, although to my knowledge there is no proof of that. They were sometimes seen on a White & Co card, although I don't know if they actually had that hallmark (and cards are easy to make and add to a wing). More frequently they show up with a BB&B Bronze hallmark, but many (myself included) consider that to be a spurious hallmark. Other than that, there is nothing that is really specific about the manufacturing of these wings to support a 1920's or 30's prewar badge. They are rather common and I have (again in my opinion) never felt that they stand up well to other badges made during that time. I have never seen a vintage photo of these wings being worn (except once, see below. But never in a pre or wartime photo of a pilot) nor seen any provenance to an autobiographical wing. Most of the versions of this wing are rather delicate and I have always felt that they are more WWII vintage patriotic/sweetheart-type jewelry. This is the only picture of this wing being worn, and it came out of a scrapbook that "Alice" kept while her husband "Jonnie" was in the CBI. He was a mechanic and not a pilot. You can see she is wearing the wing on her coat. There are multiple threads about this wing. One is here. That being said, I have seen a few examples of this wing that are both STERLING and a bit more robust that COULD have been worn by a pilot. Still, there isn't any evidence that was the case. But you have to decide for yourself without other evidence when this badge was made. I know they are not that expensive, in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thwingmarty Posted August 9 Share #5 Posted August 9 I will differ with Patrick on this one on a couple of points. I think the ones only marked sterling that are typically attributed to White Co. are much more common, and I along with quite a few other collectors do not consider the BB&B Bronze marked wings to be spurious. So as was said before, you will have to do your research and decide where your opinion falls. White Co. did hallmark some Naval wings, but I do not recall seeing any of these pilot wings with a White Co. hallmark either. Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militbuff Posted August 9 Author Share #6 Posted August 9 The plot thickens! Thanks both Patrick and Marty for your thoughts. I have seen a few of the sweetheart wings over the years and they all seem to have the foreshortened pin vs. the longer pin. Also, their detail is poor and they’re flimsy. My wing has a longer pin, has nice detail and isn’t flimsy. If they are sweetheart wings, they’re definitely a nicer pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 9 Share #7 Posted August 9 Its not hard to find a version of this wing, no matter where you fall in its vintage. I had many opportunities to get one over the years (but I never wanted to pay more than $ 30$ for one). Eventually, I found my version in scrap-book at a flea market. I love the provenance and the story, so I bought it (and the scrapbook with some nice CBI-made bullion patches) and the photos and other stuff inside it. Unless you pay crazy money for one, it is probably a safe bet no matter what. BB&B catalogs exist and I always look through them to see if they have a copy of that wing shown for sale (definitive proof, IMHO). Still, I don't recall ever seeing that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's an interesting-shaped wing and I do like it. I do wonder if there won't be a post soon from someone saying... "Actually, I have the die, and it is marked 19XX and was made by the Acme Coyote/Road Runner die-making company! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff41st Posted August 10 Share #8 Posted August 10 Are the BB&B hallmarked wings 3-inches or are the less than 3-inches like this example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 10 Share #9 Posted August 10 It’s basically the same wing size and pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathbonemuseum.com Posted August 10 Share #10 Posted August 10 For myself, I do not believe the BB&B wings are legitimately hallmarked. Never have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 18 Share #11 Posted August 18 This is currently on eBay. Its a clear sweetheart wing modification to the above wing pattern. Not proof that these wings are NOT 1920-30's vintage but rather WWII vintage sweetheart, but not proof that they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danimal03 Posted August 18 Share #12 Posted August 18 Interesting wing! Thank you for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thwingmarty Posted August 18 Share #13 Posted August 18 In the BB&B thread Tod shared a page of sweetheart pins that look to have been maybe son in service pins. I don't believe that was dated, but it has one that includes a pilot wing with stars in the chief, but no US. I haven't found that pattern of wing in any other BB&B document yet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 19 Share #14 Posted August 19 This is a composite picture of one of my wings and a current ebay auction for the BB&B bronze wings. The one in my collection is more robust and marked STERLING. The Sterling shows up in a small arc, which is actually sometimes seen with White & Co-marked items. However, in hand, nothing makes me think this is from the 30s. The other wing shows a BB&B marked wing. I don't like the hallmark, as it doesn't match other BB&B/bronze hallmarks. But that is up to you to decide. Someone asked about the size, and they are the same size. In fact, both wings have a very obvious die flaw in the shield (arrow). It is my opinion (take it for what it is worth) that these BB&B marks are spurious additions to old 40's sweetheart stock wings. But I was hoping Marty would prove me wrong with data from the BB&B catalog. Or that someone would find a 30's vintage photo of a pilot wearing these. In any case, you can get one at the eBay auction for about 200ish dollars. I always think when a deal it so good and it hasn't sold... there is a reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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