WW2 Army 40mm Rounds-What they look like?

[Persian Gulf Command]

Need some direction regarding what correct WW2 40mm projectiles should look like!  I have a nice 1943 Army 40mm M25 casing that I want to place a correct Army projectile into. 

 

Also, correct markings on the rotating band for Army rounds would be helpful.

 

Thank you in advance for your help!

[Persian Gulf Command]

Want to add that I do not need to be advised about the AP projectiles as I know that they are painted black. What I need are the HE and anti-aircraft designations and views of the actual projectiles w/correct fuses.

 

Thanks again!

[Bodes]

You're going to want an M-81 or M-81 A-1 projectile....Bodes

 

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/226846-m81a1-40mm-ap-projectile/

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/cartridge_-40mm-ap-t_-m81a1-an.html

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1051480100

[Persian Gulf Command]

Bodes, Thank you for the links!

 

Could now use photo of a WW2 HE 40mm w/ original paint and correct fuse.

[Bodes]

4 hours ago, Persian Gulf Command said:

Bodes, Thank you for the links!

 

Could now use photo of a WW2 HE 40mm w/ original paint and correct fuse.

Sounds like you want an M-91 TP-T, but I'm wondering why you would want a training round?...Bodes

 

https://www.bocn.co.uk/gallery/40-60-bofors-projectile-fired-from-bofors-gun-with-plug-rep-250.91/full

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/pdf/TM-9-1300-203-1967.pdf#page=75

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/cartridge_-40mm-tp-t_-m91.html

[Persian Gulf Command]

Definitely do not want a training round. What I do want is seeing what the Army used as Anti-Aircraft or HE used on ground targets other than the black AP projectiles. I believe it was designated HE-T Mk II but am not sure, so I need clarification.  

[Bodes]

Army and Navy units used this round....Army rounds (M3/M3a1) are listed as being OD color with yellow markings....Navy rounds (MkII/Mk2) Green with white markings and green tip fuze....The reference (per second link shown below) has a 1958 date, so not sure if this is the time of the write up or the time frame for the use of this particular round?....Bodes

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/cartridge_-40mm-he-t_-sd_-mk-3.html

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/pdf/TM-43-0001-28-1994.pdf#page=50

[Persian Gulf Command]

2 hours ago, Bodes said:

Army and Navy units used this round....Army rounds (M3/M3a1) are listed as being OD color with yellow markings....Navy rounds (MkII/Mk2) Green with white markings and green tip fuze....The reference (per second link shown below) has a 1958 date, so not sure if this is the time of the write up or the time frame for the use of this particular round?....Bodes

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/cartridge_-40mm-he-t_-sd_-mk-3.html

 

https://www.bulletpicker.com/pdf/TM-43-0001-28-1994.pdf#page=50

Bodes, OK, that's what I need the difference between the Army and Navy rounds.  Now I need to find either a nice WW2 dated Black AP or WW2 dated OD projectile.

 

Thank you so much for the links and information!

[ordnance]

Here's a better image from the manual that shows what a late 40mm HE-T round looked like.

 

 

If your round is early enough, it should look like this one, unfortunately missing the black markings.  The rotating band is marked:  "LOT 52370-1  1942 AM-  40MM MKII T".  It's complete with the SD (self destruct) tracer.

 

[Persian Gulf Command]

57 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Here's a better image from the manual that shows what a late 40mm HE-T round looked like.

 

 

If your round is early enough, it should look like this one, unfortunately missing the black markings.  The rotating band is marked:  "LOT 52370-1  1942 AM-  40MM MKII T".  It's complete with the SD (self destruct) tracer.

 

Ordnance - Thank you so much for the additional Manual image and the photo of the actual early yellow projectile! The indication of markings on the rotating band completes the information I was hoping to obtain. 

[Bodes]

The round shown by Ordnance doesn't have a live fuse, so that would more than likely mean it was used for practice/training....PGC, the primer in your casing would tell you which projectile would be "correct"....The one shown above uses either an M38, M38B2 or Mk2 primer....The M25 casing I have has an M23A2 primer which would mean I can use the M-81 or M-81A-1 projectile...Only difference being the manner in which the windshield cap is attached to the blunted projectile....Bodes

 

Here's the round I posted in the link above and you can see is the same one Ordnance listed....

 

 

[Persian Gulf Command]

The primer is a M38 B-2

 

 

This is what I am trying to obtain a correct 40mm projectile for:

 

 

[Bodes]

36 minutes ago, Persian Gulf Command said:

The primer is a M38 B-2

 

 

This is what I am trying to obtain a correct 40mm projectile for:

 

 

 

Very nice casing and tube, so good luck with your search.....Bodes

 

BTW....Does the headstamp include an army acceptance proof on it, as I cannot see one in the picture....

[Persian Gulf Command]

9 minutes ago, Bodes said:

Very nice casing and tube, so good luck with your search.....Bodes

 

BTW....Does the headstamp include an army acceptance proof on it, as I cannot see one in the picture....

Bodes, No Army Crossed Cannons. Again, thanks for your help! 

 

 John

[Bodes]

13 minutes ago, Persian Gulf Command said:

Bodes, No Army Crossed Cannons. Again, thanks for your help! 

 

 John

Being it's designated M25, it is of course still considered an army casing....The projectile on mine is not marked with the crossed cannons, but it's army by having the M-81 A-1 designation....Bodes

[pzjgr]

Note also the case has the distinct Army style stab crimps, you never see this style of crimping on Navy cases. I have a few Army rounds upstairs in the room, I'll try to get some pics this weekend...

[Persian Gulf Command]

21 minutes ago, pzjgr said:

Note also the case has the distinct Army style stab crimps, you never see this style of crimping on Navy cases. I have a few Army rounds upstairs in the room, I'll try to get some pics this weekend...

Thank you, looking forward to seeing the Army rounds!

[Persian Gulf Command]

Can I have anybody's thoughts on either of these 40mm bodies regarding them being WW2? And what does the color indicate?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[917601]

A few observations. First, your M25 case is Army issue, they were staked with little square stakes, unlike the Navy case.

 

The 40mm projectiles you pictured are painted in primer. They are NOT WW2 issue, notice the engraving numbers on the driving band. I believe the “…87C…“ is ( Naval code), manufactured 1987, C is the month, March. 
 

See my pictures of WW2 40mm I have. Note also they are factory crimped inert. Very hard to find.

[917601]

More pics of markings on the driving bands. The Bofors charger clip is Army issue dated 1944, the Army ( left) is an M81A1 dated 1944. The other three are Navy 1942 dated.

[917601]

Headcase markings. 

[Persian Gulf Command]

30 minutes ago, 917601 said:

Headcase markings. 

R., You saved me some money as I only want a WW2 Army projectile.

[917601]

I have this WW2 one, I was saving it for the right casing. Unfortunately, the band engraving has been highly polished and the engraving very hard to see.

Under my 40x loupe, it is marked “ MK1 M004- YS&L CO 5”. The MK1 projectile I believe is very early WW2. The tracer element on the butt has been sawn off.

[917601]

I dug out another one. Case dated 1943, I believe the headcase markings indicate it as Canadian manufacture. Unfortunately, when it was chrome plated, the band engravings were polished out.

[917601]

Ignore the primer, the previous owner stuck a Russian 7.62 case in to fill the hole.