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Gunners Wing Help Please


muddyboots
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muddyboots

I picked these off of eBay and have been looking at the manufacturer example and pattern post and I’m not really finding anything that’ matches. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

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The Rooster

It looks like a Smilo Pattern wing. WW2 and looks like it was used judging by the pin.

Others will correct me if Im wrong.

Heres a straight up Smilo wing

Same etching pattern as yours.

 

494654091_25-Copy.jpg.681d6202c9d1bb5767b2d064b1140364.jpg

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The Rooster

Heres a link to smilo wings.

Has a gunners wing just like yours on the front.

I cant see a back on these, so yours is either a Smilo made or Smilo pattern.

? Someone on here will know for sure.

 

 

post-50776-0-63867000-1475635569_thumb.jpg

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rathbonemuseum.com

None of this style wing has been found hallmarked. We speculate it was made by Dan Smilo because they have been found in Smilo boxes. 

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muddyboots

Thank you gentlemen. It’s been a long time since I picked up a wing. I’ve always thought that they are absolutely beautiful. I didn’t have this style feather detail in my collection until now. I’ve been checking other makers patterns that just go crazy with detail so I’m hoping to find some locally some day. Thank you again for your help.

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I have always leaned towards these wings being manufactured and worn at a later time period, say KW and even into the post-KW era (1950s). I have an autobiographical gunner wing like the one shown that was worn by a young fellow who enlisted in late 1952 and didn't get out of gunnery school until after the Korean War was over. His flying was done mostly in the Cold War era on various bombers in the SAC. 

 

But it is always hard to know for sure when dating these things.

 

They are often found hallmarked STERLING except fittings.  A handsome wing nonetheless.  Thanks for sharing.

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5thwingmarty

I beg to differ with Dr. Frost's estimated time frame for Smilo beginning to make these wings.  The Air Force changed the wings used by Navigators, Observers and Bombardiers to the same design with the "Air Force Shield" in 1951.  If Smilo didn't start making wings until the 50's, why would they have made the WWII pattern wings for Navigators and Observers in this pattern, but never have made the 1951 design in this pattern or Smilo's other pattern?  My guess would be that the Smilo wing Patrick has that was issued in the 50's was just old stock from the 40's.

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muddyboots

The box in the Smilo link has a wing box with a War Department card that the wing is attached to dated 9-30-41. I’m still learning about wings and have never seen a wing with its original box. Would that date be when the company was given a contract to produce wings and possibly any other military items. And would these boxes have a date of manufacture kind of like other military equipment. 

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5thwingmarty

My guess is the date on that card was when Smilo received a contract to produce insignia.  Since the Service Pilot Rating and wing design didn't get authorized until April of 1942, if that wing is on its original card the date of 9-30-41 does not make sense.

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muddyboots
45 minutes ago, 5thwingmarty said:

My guess is the date on that card was when Smilo received a contract to produce insignia.  Since the Service Pilot Rating and wing design didn't get authorized until April of 1942, if that wing is on its original card the date of 9-30-41 does not make sense.

Now it makes sense why some may have some skepticism. So if they received the contract then I’m assuming a pattern of design has already been approved by the War Department for production by all manufacturers. Then it’s probably up to each manufacturer to produce what’s in the contract and release them for distribution. Dose anyone have an idea of who produced the patterns that the War Department would then approve for all manufacturers to produce??

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muddyboots

I found the answer to my question in this post 

I’m taking bets that they were probably already becoming available before they were officially approved.. it would be interesting to see if anyone has ran across any dated photos from before the official approval date of a Air Cew member wearing a set.

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This is not an especially rare wing, although I don't recall seeing it show up very often in "just WWII" groupings. 

 

I misspoke above and conflated two autobiographical wings. Here is an autobiographical grouping of Airman 3rd class Glen Frederick Story (sadly, he was MIA/KW KIA--may have been one of the last casualties of the war).  (See his story here: https://dpaa-mil.sites.crmforce.mil/dpaaProfile?id=a0Jt000000D1viOEAR).  The other wing is also a KW grouping, but it is hiding from me right now.

 

He was born in 1933 and would have been too young to enlist in WWII (he died just a couple of months after his 20th birthday).  I am not sure when he enlisted into the USAF and went to Korea, but assuming he was about 18 when he joined the USAF from South Dakota, he likely would have enlisted around 1950-51 (just as the KW was starting). Then, assuming about a year in training, it is possible that he wouldn't have earned his wings until 1952 or so.  Then I assume he went to Korea and was MIA/KIA a year later (1953).  I have a back listing of what I need to research, so I don't know for sure, but that is my feeling of the timeline for his service.  Maybe someone could clarify, but I am sure that he didn't serve in WWII (he would have been 15 in 1945)

 

In Korea, he was the flight engineer of a B-26C Invader with the 13th Bomber Squadron, 3rd Bomber Wing at Kunsan Air Force Base (K-8), Korea. On July 14, 1953, while on a night intruder mission, contact with the aircraft was lost between Sinanju and Pyongyang, North Korea. He was listed as Missing in Action and was presumed dead on July 15, 1954. Airman Third Class Story was awarded the Air Medal, the Purple Heart, the Korean Service Medal, the United Nations Service Medal, the National Defense Service Medal, the Korean Presidential Unit Citation and the Republic of Korea War Service Medal.

 

glenstory.jpg.dd7004d1b5f9e050502f793cce4d45bd.jpg.e8c2d8129a103bb098a61ea5b8262fb2.jpg

 

This may have been wings issued to him if he graduated from one of the gunnery schools, but it would have been 5-6 years after the end of WWII.

 

There was clearly some overlap (probably a lot) of WWII-made insignia worn into the KW and (even VN) war eras.   I won't quibble too much about that, but I still maintain the feeling that this pattern was more commonly seen post-WWII.

 

But I do think we tend to try to narrow down the dates of wings as if it really matters that much.  Great wings.

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muddyboots

I most certainly have seen WW2 medals and insignia issued all the way through to Vietnam,  I live not to far away from the Air Force Museum and thought of going there to checkout the various wings that are on display with groupings. I know there’s a few variations of other wings that spark a lot of questions. Plus it’s going to be a hot miserable summer and that would be a nice comfortable place to spend time and acquire a bit more knowledge.

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Threewood

Great looking wings no matter when they became available. Thank you for the insightful discussion.

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