Orber Naval Aviator wing.

[David B]

Hi all,

 

I was at a militaria fair in the UK today and came across these Orber marked Naval Aviator wings.

Nice quality with an open C catch.

 

I can't recall seeing an Orber marked Navy wing before.

 

Are they genuine wings?

 

Apologies for the photos, they were taken on the fly.

 

[The Rooster]

I think the answer for now is that no body knows.

I dont know for certain but they look okay to me.

Seems like I recently saw a Orber marked Navy Wing on ebay.....

Or somewhere. It looks pre war.....

[David B]

Yes I thought they looked OK and might be pre war but having never seen an Orber marked Naval Aviator wing before, I erred on the side of caution and didn't buy them.

[bschwartz]

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here, usually Patrick's job but I'll stand in as a Dollar Store Patrick for this one.  I don't like any wing with that particular style ORBER mark.  I've seen it on another fake and I can't remember if it was a command pilot or a tech observer or what wing but there were a bunch of them that flooded the market several years ago.  There is a good thread on Orber wings right here on the forum that I would suggest taking a look at. The Orber mark is usually a much tighter circle and in a different font.  I've never been a fan of these arched hallmark wings with the upper case name in that font.  I know there is a thread on the site somewhere that talks about the repos that were made using this mark but I can't find it quickly right now.  But I'm dubious that these were actually manufactured by Orber.  It's a unique pattern wing that is seen somewhat frequently and usually not hallmarked. I've never seen one marked as Orber before.

[David B]

Thank you for the link, that Orber thread is a very interesting read!

 

Such a great looking Navy wing too.

 

I would have thought if it was a reproduction we would be seeing more of them about, this one is the first I've seen. I'm not saying it's not a repro just I thought we'd see more.

[bschwartz]

These wings seems to be loosely based on the Blackinton pattern wings shown below:

 

 

And this pattern

 

 

The ones I've seen that most closely represent the wing that you originally posted I have seen mostly unmarked or sometimes marked as Officers Equipment.  They often show up with that extra little bit of flash in the right hand wing.

 

 

But I can tell you to stay away from any wing with that Orber hallmark.  As you go through that Orber thread you will see a note in there from MTNMAN who gives the same warning.  

 

The wing you posted does have an interesting feature in that the top of the shield has an almost hashtag mark pattern whereas the wings I posted all have the more traditional horizontal lines across the top of the shield. 

 

[David B]

Yes I noticed the unusual hashtag finishing in the shield and in hand it's even more pronounced, not something I can recall seeing before.

 

Thank you very much for your help and guidance, I greatly appreciate it.

 

I shall not be buying the wing.

[Marshallj]

Back in the 1980's ORBER was reproducing police badges. I cannot comment on the wings but if they were faking police badges...

[pfrost]

Ditto to what Bob said.  Its not an especially rare or unique wing, as USN aviator badges go.  I also do not care for the ORBER hallmark in that broad arch--as I often see them on what I consider fake pre-war badges.  But that being said, its hard to imagine why anyone would want to spice up a 35$ wing to maybe get 50$ with a "rare" hallmark? Just my thoughts

[pfrost]

Here are links to a couple of threads showing the "arched" orber hallmark on what I have always suspected to be dicey wings.

 

I am mot 100% sure, but apparently Orber was involved in making badges early in the war and it seemed that they may have been selling retail.  At some point, they either sold their dies, went out of business or became a wholesale firm.  So what you see is a mix of Orber marked badges (hallmark in a circle), Orber marked badges in which the name "Orber" is defaced (hallmark defaced in a circle), and sometimes just Sterling marked badges (no hallmark but sterling in a circle).  I have yet to see an arched Orber that I like.

 

Again, I am not 100% sure that the true story is about these and the hallmarks, but I believe that the truth is out there.

 

One thing that could be done is to find other vintage badges (Orber was not just making military insignia), insignia, fraternal or patriotic jewelry, or other items that are probably not being faked.  See if any of those items have the arched Orber or not.

 

 

[David B]

I'm learning a lot more about Orber and I can see why these strange arched logos are not particularly liked.

 

Thanks for the links Patrick.

[AndrewHL]

I guess it's an odd reason o like the wing ... but ...  the use of the single word ORBER and the open catch are a nice match and not a subtlety most fakers would catch on to.