Need Help Solving a Mystery With 2 Numbered Army Civil War Campaign Medals

[usmedalman]

I am researching information on Post WWI contracts for the Army Civil War Campaign Medal and came across these two examples. Based on other photographs, the two medals appear to be from S.E. Eby, based on the numbering style and the brooch, but the production dates seem impossible to reconcile with the medal numbers. Please chime in with your opinions on what might be going on here.

 

Medal 2258 was found on this forum and identified as an S.E. Eby contract medal by a forum member. As you can see, box is dated 5/23/33 but is missing the top of the label. Also it is hard to tell if the medal number was written with a fountain pen at the time of production, or if a collector just numbered the box with the medal number to help keep them together.

 

Medal 2257 was found on an old auction site. However, as you can see the contract date is 11/4/35. To me, it seems these have been together forever given the condition of the medal.

[Edelweisse]

Interesting info…I own Civil War medal# 2231

[bulldog06]

The 11/4/35 is identified as the Purchase Order number. It may also be the contract number if the contract quantity of medals was delivered in one shipment. Or it may just be the number of one of several delivery orders of medals, that would eventually add up to the Contract quantity.

 

The 5/23/33 is identified as Spec. I believe this stands for a Government Specification stating the required dimensions, sewing, ribbon, bronze, etc of CW medals made after 1933 and before the next Specification change. The label is saying that the medal was produced per the 5/23/33 specification requirement.

 

Mike

[Edelweisse]

I agree with Bulldog06…..  I believe the “P.O.No. 1586-11-4-35” is the contract# of the  Phila. QM Depot.   I believe the contract date is 1935.
 

I just retired from DLA after 51 yrs of DOD Logistics/Supply….I kinda recognize things like “Stock No.”  and  “Spec. 5/23/33”  being the specifications

 

[usmedalman]

So

3 hours ago, Edelweisse said:

I agree with Bulldog06…..  I believe the “P.O.No. 1586-11-4-35” is the contract# of the  Phila. QM Depot.   I believe the contract date is 1935.
 

I just retired from DLA after 51 yrs of DOD Logistics/Supply….I kinda recognize things like “Stock No.”  and  “Spec. 5/23/33”  being the specifications

 

Thanks for chiming in. So, if I understand correctly the date on the box refers to the PO #date the other box is the date of the Specifications that cover the specifics of the medal (dimensions, finish,etc.) And they don't necessarily have to do with the date(s) that medals in the contract were struck. Is that about right?

[Edelweisse]

Yes…I believe so….the specifications is the “Technical Data Package” such as blueprints, matériels, etc..  These are normally numbered and dated….and the contract#s (I.e. PO#) “P.O.No. 1586.11-4-35” are also coded in a way to identify the organization and date.  I’m thinking the contract was awarded 11 April 1935 or November 4, 1935…whatever the date formats may have been.  That’s just my option.

[bulldog06]

I'll add a little more based on my experiences with Govt contracts. Of course, terms could have been different in 1933.

 

I've seen copies of War Dept  (later DOD) medal specifications that provide the requirements for vendors to make medals for the Army. The specifications are numbered and dated. They contain many details describing the desired medals, including size, type of bronze, ribbon, number of tacking sewing stitches, etc. The specs remain in effect until they are changed. 

 

The government would have issued a request for quotes to a vendor or vendors to provide a quantity of medals. The request would include the medal specification in effect at that time. Interested vendors would submit their pricing to make the medals according to the specification. The govt would then pick a vendor and issue a Contract with a Contract number.

 

The govt purchasing office would then issue a Purchase Order with a PO number for the quantity of medals they wanted to be delivered at that time. The authority for the Purchase Order was the Contract number.

 

The vendor would then make and deliver the quantity specified citing the Purchase Order number on its shipping and invoicing documents. Once the delivery was received, the gov't would pay the vendors, again citing the Purchase Order.

 

In my recent experience, there can be multiple deliveries and Purchase Orders on one Contract. So Purchase Order numbers are different than the Contract number.

 

I suspect that in the case of some medal production, the quantities were small, and the entire contract quantity was delivered to the govt in one shipment with one Purchase Order.

 

In any event, a Contract or Purchase order on a box label helps identify that production run of medals.

 

Mike

[Edelweisse]

Bulldog06 did a great job explaining the purchase/US Government process…the Purchase Order (PO) or Purchase Request (PR) is a request sent to a government contracting office requesting a contract be solicited and awarded obligating the funds and these a numbered for audit purposes.  The government contracting office awards a contract which also has a contract number.  I don’t know the process back in the 1920s or 1930s (smile).

 

Again…great job Bulldog06

[Edelweisse]

Does anyone have a copy of Gliem’s book on  Army Civil War medal listing the numbers, receipts, contract info.. which I just saw listed during another medal discussion.

[Edelweisse]

I found this list so…it appears there was a “void”