Jump to content

Cold War Reenactors? Reforger anyone?


Recommended Posts

Our soldier writing home appears to be wearing ripstop ERDL. As he is a private, he is not a member of Special Forces, so it would be interesting to know what unit he was with to be authorized such a uniform. His helmet cover looks older than he is.

 

Gil,

 

you owned the day with your show ! I have this booklet and some others. I picked them up in a Recruiting Station in New Jersey in 1981. There is one with a well decorated 173rd Abn vet NCO counselling young civilians.

About the soldier in ERDL, the answer might here on an another USMF thread, where else ?!

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...mp;#entry294665

 

A.

"One law for them, another one for us !"

donation2017.gif

 

 

donation2016.gif

donation2015.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2012.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2007.gif

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 365
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Good job! I had seen that thread before explaining they'd been issued to troops in Baumholder.

 

Another item shown in that same thread is what we used to call a "Baumholder Jacket" (I am sure other places took credit for them as well.) Basically it looks like a wet weather jacket ("rain jacket") with blanket material sewn into it. This was before Gortex and all those other wonder materials we have now.

 

If you wore a wet weather jacket over a field jacket it was too bulky and often too warm. The Baumholder Jacket kept the rain out and the blanket provided warmth.

 

My version was made similar with a wet weather jacket with poncho liner material sewn into it. I even had an inner pocket added and had my name tape sewn on the inside so it did not disappear. Mine was made by a German PX contract tailor that worked in a small drop off point in our battalion area.

 

These were never an approved uniform, but officers and enlisted wore them constantly in the field.

 

Andrei, if you were at a recruiting station in 1981, why didn't you sign up!

Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

donation2017.gif

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


Link to post
Share on other sites
PT is always more fun "somewhere else"! Not familiar with the term "Beret March". What would that be?

 

The IDF has a quaint local custom that you earn the right to have certain parts of your uniform and equipment.

 

Your rifle sling costs you a 2km stretcher march

Your unit tag costs about 10km

Your beret badge, infantry for me, costs about 20km

Your beret, in a variety of pretty colours depending on unit, costs you the most 80 -100km

Thus the beret march is the final test at the end of a basic training which lasts about 6 months for an infantry soldier

 

It really is a whole bunch of FUN!

 

I tried to get this instituted in a newly stood up US Battalion as a morale builder...they told me I was nuts...different words but same idea though :) It has a lot in common with the road marches in JFK School.

 

T-Bone

Link to post
Share on other sites
Our soldier writing home appears to be wearing ripstop ERDL. As he is a private, he is not a member of Special Forces, so it would be interesting to know what unit he was with to be authorized such a uniform. His helmet cover looks older than he is.

 

The 3-36th Infantry, 3rd Armored Division Scout Platoon wore ERDL camo when I was with the unit in 1975-78. I also recall some agressor details having ERDL camo. I always asumed it came from Training Aids.

Collecting 3rd Armored Division items of all kinds from all eras, specializing in the 36th Armored Infantry Regiment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another item shown in that same thread is what we used to call a "Baumholder Jacket"

 

We called them "Graph" jackets, after Grafenwoehr.

They were made with a wet weather parka and a quilted field jacket liner.

Anybody ever have a set of the West German CAV boots with the rabbit fur lining?

I wore mine until they fell apart. crying.gif

"The reason the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices it on a daily basis."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also note she is wearing metal enlisted flight wings on her hat. This probably would not have been tolerated in the USAF or the USN for possible FOD damage to the engine should the insignia become loose. But then, this is the Army...

 

Mee thinks its a totally posed photo as no headgear on the flight line think.gif as per a Warrant 5 at USAALS

"The reason the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices it on a daily basis."

Link to post
Share on other sites
The 3-36th Infantry, 3rd Armored Division Scout Platoon wore ERDL camo when I was with the unit in 1975-78. I also recall some agressor details having ERDL camo. I always asumed it came from Training Aids.

 

In the 82nd AB we wore ERDL Cammies (Jungle Cammies we called them), Jungle Fatigues, BDU's after the OG's were phased out.

 

Rock

2RO2.jpg

 

2/505th (RA) 5/502nd (RA) 2/505th (REEN)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Also note she is wearing metal enlisted flight wings on her hat. This probably would not have been tolerated in the USAF or the USN for possible FOD damage to the engine should the insignia become loose. But then, this is the Army...

 

Mee thinks its a totally posed photo as no headgear on the flight line think.gif as per a Warrant 5 at USAALS

 

I don't know, I remeber folks wearing insignia on these caps around 1984-1987 when we did base tours in JROTC.

I saw plenty of stuff as a cadet which would not fly today.

 

But I saw AF SPs with head gear o nthe flightline 2 weeks ago... who knows.

 

T-Bone

Link to post
Share on other sites

I made a few of those rain jackets lined with blankets for guys who wanted them,me I always wore a poncho either with the LBE and pistol belt outside and wrapped up under my bottom and around legs and tucked into the pistolbelt,kept me warm and dry.Though most often everything was underneath so that when we stopped I could sit on something drop my head into the poncho with my 16 proping up my helmet making a little hootch I could fire up a cigarette in,it never failed to scare the crap outa someone when I'd stand up out of the foliage as if appearing from nowhere. Aah! good times,good times,lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

A couple of shots of armor crewmen. Apparently the way to recruit young men is to entice them with heavy machine guns.

One photo shows a soldier wearing what looks to be a field jacket with a fur collar attached. I don't remember this arrangement. I am wondering if he borrowed the hood from a parka. You can just make out the subdued 3rd ID patch on his shoulder.

The other individual is wearing OG-107 fatigues with a 3rd Armored patch, a crewman's helmet, webgear with an inverted first aid pouch, and what looks to be a military issue watch. Sometimes these watches were issued, but often supply sergeants were reluctant to hand them out as they were an accountable item. However at times they could also be purchased through the Post Exchange.


We used to remove the parka fur collar and put it on our field jackets, I don't know why, guess it was the thing to do at the time. I'm sitting on mine in the guard shack, notice the bars on the windows. And the other shot is in the motorpool , you can see the guy wearing his.

Dead link

edited 2/9/2018

dwiv

 

As to pile caps, alot of us wore the M1951 caps, nobody got upset about it.

"Old tankers never die, they just smell that way!"

A co. 4/73rd Armor, 1st Infantry Division (Forward)

 

donation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Andrei, if you were at a recruiting station in 1981, why didn't you sign up!

 

In NJ, they did not take foreign nationals. Where I stayed in Queens, only the Marines took foreign nationals and I did want to be a Marine ! :D

"One law for them, another one for us !"

donation2017.gif

 

 

donation2016.gif

donation2015.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2012.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2007.gif

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is it, that everytime I look at this thread I feel cold, wet and miserable? :rolleyes:

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif



" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. "

View my website honoring the men and women of Indiana: http://indianavets.wix.com/indiana-at-war and follow my updates on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/IndianaModernAgeofWar/
Interested in US uniforms? Join the Association of American Military Uniform Collectors! http://aamuc.org/or find us on Facebook! facebook.com/AAMUC.ORG

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Why is it, that everytime I look at this thread I feel cold, wet and miserable? :rolleyes:

 

That's called either a warm sense of nostalgia... or a flashback relapse. Not sure which. Pass me a box of C-rations please.

Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

donation2017.gif

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


Link to post
Share on other sites

I accidently stumbled onto this thread - I usually hang out in SSI. I participated in 4 REFORGERs, and played "Fulda Gap" more than I ever want to remember.

 

For the first time in my life, looking at all you guys' pix made me feel VERY old. I suddenly realized it's been almost 40 years since most of my pix were taken. Attached are a few pix from my years in The Cav.

 

This first pic was taken on REFORGER, during the fall of 1970, near Kelheim. Those of you who have been in that area know the river is in a graben and forms a great kill zone. We had been delaying for 5 days/24 hours a day and we were beat. This is 2LT Steve Robbins, a cattle rancher from SD.

 

post-1580-1237995286.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Near Straubing, FRG, REFORGER Oct 1970. Old, old straight M-60s, NOT M-60A1s. The gun tubes on my tanks were the originals, bought from the Brits in the 1960-'61 timeframe. They had a huge British crown coat of arms stamped on the gun tube. Someone already remarked - the locals turned out in droves to watch the show (and get the damage reports ready). The day after this photo was taken, one of my M-60s ate a Mercedes. Nobody hurt, but the German owner sure was pi**ed, lol!!

 

post-1580-1237995992.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Inventory preparation for rail-loading tanks, east of Munich (Erding), REFORGER Sept '70. As you can see - in The Cav (in the field), we really didn't give a rat's a** about appearance - just get the job done. For those of you who were never involved in rail-loading tanks, it was a VERY scarie and dangerous undertaking. The M-60 series tanks hung over the sides of the flat cars by a good 18 inches on each side. The only way to load 'em - drive each tank straight down the line from flat car to flat car. Sadly, on this loading, our unit lost a great trooper, who was crushed when the German engineer moved the train before our tanks were tied down. The guy w/the cap is Ed Johnson - my platoon sergeant. He retired as a CSM and was the finest NCO I ever encountered in 62 years association with the US Army.

 

Hey, look!! There's a track jack!! God, I HATED changing track - two track blocks on an M-60 weighed more than I did.

 

post-1580-1237996445.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

REFORGER, Oct '75. My troop, just off the flat cars at the railhead. This pic was taken at the Bundeswehr Armor School in Munster. The next day, we moved east to the East German border to begin a 4 day delaying action.

 

post-1580-1237998746.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

REFORGER, Oct '75, Munster. First Platoon, prepping tracks for the next day's FTX. Somebody mentioned earlier, wearing the wolf fur hood on your field jacket. Well... on the far left, there ya go - my guys often did that in the field.

 

post-1580-1237999071.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

REFORGER '75, North German Plain, between Munster and Hamburg. The East German border was about 5 clicks behind those guys and I was worried that when we we kicked off (in the dark), one of my 35 tracks would wander into East Germany. 2LT Mike "Grit" Shores on the left; and SSG Ken Brooks. Today, Mike is a business exec; and Ken is a retired 1SG. In The Cav, officers and NCOs wore those Tandy leather pot metal "US" buckles.

 

post-1580-1237999551.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the topic of modified wet weather jackets.. either known as Baumholder Jackets or Graf Jackets...

 

Here's mine. You can see the poncho liner sewn into it. Mine had an added inner pocket, and to prevent someone mistakenly picking it up I had my nametape sewn into it.

 

Also a shot of me wearing this on my terminal assignment with the active Army. For my last five months, after telling them I was not returning, I was a professional paper pusher.

 

Note that with the added layer from the poncho liner it tended to give you a bulked up appearance.

 

(In the background is my trusty lime green Volkswagen Scirocco which I drove like a Formula 1 car on the mountain roads of Germany!)

 

In the warmer parts of spring or fall, you could wear this on top of your OG-107's. In colder weather I'd wear it with a wool cold weather shirt or a field jacket. Another variation was to wear a sleeping shirt under your OG-107's... you had all sorts of options for mix and match. Anything to keep warm and dry.

Baumholder_jacket_2.JPG

Baumholder_jacket.JPG

Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

donation2017.gif

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another photo showing the diversity of uniforms that might be worn in the German spring.

 

This is an operations conference for B/708th Maintenance Battalion, probably about 1982 during a field exercise.

 

Facing the camera is CPT Dan Roh wearing a Baumholder Jacket. Dan was a muscular guy as you would expect for an infantry officer, but the lined jacket bulks him up even further. You can see the poncho liner material in the hood off to the side. Note that Dan has elected to wear subdued jump wings on his hat with full color captain's rank.

 

Seated sideways to him was one of our Maintenance Warrant officers. In contrast he is wearing just a plain wet weather jacket. You can see how it lays flatter on him.

 

Behind him is one of our NCO's wearing an M-65 field jacket. He wears metal subued E-7 rank on his lapels and hat, and you can see a 708th MNT BN crest also at the peak of his hat. You can also see an 8th ID shoulder patch.

 

We'd all been working extended hours at that point, and you can see it in everybody's expression. Dan worked about twice as many hours as Company Commander and I never knew how he did it.

Baumholder_jacket_3.JPG

Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

donation2017.gif

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohhh yeah!! As the recruiting commercial used to go......... "SEE Europe as no tourist ever will!!" RIGHT!!! This was taken on the same REFORGER (Oct '70), a couple of days after the Kelheim pic, as the delaying action continued north. By now, we were between Amberg and the Czech border. You old Germany hands know the drill..... 40 degrees and drizzle, day after day, week after week, month after month. Cold and wet, sleeping in a wet sleeping bag and NO tents. See how happy I am, to be wet and cold, lol?

 

BTW - in The Cav, we had what we called "lap blankets". They were made from shelter halves, with wool GI blankets sewn on the inside (downward facing surface). Because the scouts always rode around in M-151s with no top or windshield, they placed the lap blanket across the front seats of the jeep. It did trap a little heat from the engine; but I think it was mostly psychological. God, did we live a miserable life in The Cav or what?

 

post-1580-1238003380.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ohhh yeah!! As the recruiting commercial used to go......... "SEE Europe as no tourist ever will!!" RIGHT!!! This was taken on the same REFORGER (Oct '70), a couple of days after the Kelheim pic, as the delaying action continued north. By now, we were between Amberg and the Czech border. You old Germany hands know the drill..... 40 degrees and drizzle, day after day, week after week, month after month. Cold and wet, sleeping in a wet sleeping bag and NO tents. See how happy I am, to be wet and cold, lol?

 

BTW - in The Cav, we had what we called "lap blankets". They were made from shelter halves, with wool GI blankets sewn on the inside (downward facing surface). Because the scouts always rode around in M-151s with no top or windshield, they placed the lap blanket across the front seats of the jeep. It did trap a little heat from the engine; but I think it was mostly psychological. God, did we live a miserable life in The Cav or what?

 

post-1580-1238003380.jpg

 

My Scout Teams would wear the winter parka, winter gloves, pile cap and wool scarf wrapped around our faces. We would use the wool blankets in the same fashion and they did work at keeping at least our legs warm. Adapt.

 

Rock

2RO2.jpg

 

2/505th (RA) 5/502nd (RA) 2/505th (REEN)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.